Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Phil]

PS3 was $600 at launch and Sony lost a good $200+ on each machine iirc...

Wouldn't it be more accurate to look at what the PS3 cost/was priced in Yen for an assessment? Not sure how the currency rates have changed between the launch of the PS3 and what the situation is compared to that now days - but I do know that only the US is that concerned about how much a console costs over the pre-historic launch price of $299. We in Europe have always payed a lot more for our consoles.

IMO - since the low entry price in the US is rather detrimental to the success of the console, I would calculate how much [in YEN for the Sony console] it cost for Sony back at the launch of the PS3 and try to cover the budget for the new console with current currency exchange-rates trends from that angle...

 

[Rangers]

Wouldn't it be more accurate to look at what the PS3 cost/was priced in Yen for an assessment? Not sure how the currency rates have changed between the launch of the PS3 and what the situation is compared to that now days - but I do know that only the US is that concerned about how much a console costs over the pre-historic launch price of $299. We in Europe have always payed a lot more for our consoles.

IMO - since the low entry price in the US is rather detrimental to the success of the console, I would calculate how much [in YEN for the Sony console] it cost for Sony back at the launch of the PS3 and try to cover the budget for the new console with current currency exchange-rates trends from that angle...

It's quite terrible. I believe I read a comment on GAF that Nintendo will be getting about as much yen per unit for Wii U today at 349 as they did for Wii at 249.

From Nintendo's perspective the Wii U is priced the same as the Wii was in America.

This could also why PS3 super slim got a $20 raise.

 

[Rodéric]

It's quite terrible. I believe I read a comment on GAF that Nintendo will be getting about as much yen per unit for Wii U today at 349 as they did for Wii at 249.

From Nintendo's perspective the Wii U is priced the same as the Wii was in America.

That sounds unlikely, Wii was inexpensive, since an overclocked GC, WiiU can hardly be that cheap...

 

[Rangers]

That sounds unlikely, Wii was inexpensive, since an overclocked GC, WiiU can hardly be that cheap...

i am just referring to exchange rate. 250 dollars in 2005=350 now in yen terms.

i havent verified this but i read it in a comment on gaf.

Edit: actually it's true, links: http://www.mac.doc.gov/japan-korea/statistics/exchange.htm https://www.google.com/search?q=+dollar+yen+exchange+rate

2005 1 dollar~110 yen, 2012 1 dollar~78 yen. 250 dollars 2005=27,500 yen, 2012 350 dollars=27,300 yen

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Yeah the Yen is crazy expensive. I'm bleeding every time I walk over to an ATM.

 

[McHuj]

I was thinking about the embedded SRAM that MS may looking at. I came across this from Synopsis. Basically it's a talk about using the synopsis tools for embedding SRAM at 28nm as an alternative to eDRAM. They have a 16Mb IP block that can be used to build large on-chip memories.

My speculation is that MS wants an embedded SRAM instead of DRAM so that both the GPU and RAM can be on the same process and possibly combined into a single chip (maybe during the first shrink). I believe there is 28nm eDRAM, but beyond who knows how much it will lag behind the latest nodes, whereas SRAM will always be available at the latest node.

 

[user542745831]

PS3 was $600 at launch and Sony lost a good $200+ on each machine iirc...

Personally I don't think Sony or Microsoft will want to sustain that kind of loss per machine again next time around.

How did that answer the initial questions:

What do you actually think a "next-gen" gaming console equipped with a GPU in the ballpark of a GTX 680 or HD 7970 would actually cost on launch at retail (amount in figures)?

And what do you consider to be "too expensive" (amount in figures)?

?

 

[Blazkowicz]

doesn't the "e" in "esram" mean ehnanced?
I know nothing else about it.

 

[tunafish]

doesn't the "e" in "esram" mean ehnanced?
I know nothing else about it.

Yes, but it's important to note that eSRAM is not SRAM. It's some kind of DRAM with a translation layer that makes it look like (rather slow) SRAM to the user. I think it has been quite successful in replacing SRAM chips in all kinds of low-performance embedded systems where they wanted more memory for lower cost, but didn't want to redesign the chips using the ram. eSRAM is not any easier to embed on the same die as eDRAM.

 

[anexanhume]

Yes, but it's important to note that eSRAM is not SRAM. It's some kind of DRAM with a translation layer that makes it look like (rather slow) SRAM to the user. I think it has been quite successful in replacing SRAM chips in all kinds of low-performance embedded systems where they wanted more memory for lower cost, but didn't want to redesign the chips using the ram. eSRAM is not any easier to embed on the same die as eDRAM.

Translation layer? Is it transistor or capacitor based or a hybrid?

 

[Blazkowicz]

What's in it doesn't matter too much as long as they can easily make it in big enough sizes.
The interesting thing would be it's easy to hook up, so it would be a good candidate for side attached memory with a big bandwith.

 

[tunafish]

Translation layer? Is it transistor or capacitor based or a hybrid?

I think the actual memory cells are caps. Then the same chip contains a controller that takes in signals the way SRAM consumers are used to send them and manages the DRAM array.

On the other hand, quick Google searches seem to indicate that people use the eSRAM name for other things too. Who knows.

 

[Rangers]

Speaking of embedded RAM's, whats a good amount for Durango?

I vote for 32MB. I despise wasting transistors on the stuff, and my thinking is 1080P is 2.25 the pixels of 720P, 32MB:10MB is obviously greater than the presumable target resolution increase next gen, so you'll have more ERAM per pixel in Durango than 360, slightly anyway.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Yes, but it's important to note that eSRAM is not SRAM. It's some kind of DRAM with a translation layer that makes it look like (rather slow) SRAM to the user. I think it has been quite successful in replacing SRAM chips in all kinds of low-performance embedded systems where they wanted more memory for lower cost, but didn't want to redesign the chips using the ram. eSRAM is not any easier to embed on the same die as eDRAM.

It's my understanding that the "e" in eSRAM is actually for "embedded", same as eDRAM.

Although there are two kinds: 1T-SRAM and 6T-SRAM, where 1T-SRAM (used in the GC)is in fact not SRAM but more similar to DRAM, and 6T-SRAM is definintely SRAM.

1T-SRAM whilst not strictly SRAM, is often referred to as eSRAM. But strictly speaking eSRAM, or "embedded"SRAM can be 1T or 6T.

If indeed MS is looking to use eSRAM on Durango, it will most likely be 1T-SRAM.

Edit:
See: www.fujitsu.com/downloads/MAG/vol47-2/paper05.pdf

 

[XpiderMX]

Speaking of embedded RAM's, whats a good amount for Durango?

I vote for 32MB. I despise wasting transistors on the stuff, and my thinking is 1080P is 2.25 the pixels of 720P, 32MB:10MB is obviously greater than the presumable target resolution increase next gen, so you'll have more ERAM per pixel in Durango than 360, slightly anyway.

Is 3D in the equation?

 

[Rangers]

Is 3D in the equation?

it doesn't seem to be setting the world on fire. I remember there were 3d phones for a while, not anymore. i'd say no.

anyways 360 does 3d ok doesnt it? And again 32MB @1080P would give Durango more eRAM per pixel than 360.

I am somewhat excited about this "eSRAM" and how versatile and powerful it may be. Call me crazy but I've always admired MS system engineers the most and think they've done overall the best job in their two generations on the market of all the competitors. Removing a lot of the EDRAM limitations present in 360 seems to me it could be leading to something pretty awesome at a relatively inexpensive BOM if paired with a huge amount of DDR3/4. All this will change of course if the Durango GPU isn't powerful enough to my liking LOL.

Doing the numbers 32MB @1080P is 42% more eRAM per pixel than 10MB @720P. 1.42X. Or the equivalent if 360 shipped with 14.2MB.

 

[fehu]

3d is important like 4k resolution

 

[almighty]

3d is important like 4k resolution

The complete and utter lack of 3D enabled displays says otherwise.

 

[Gubbi]

The complete and utter lack of 3D enabled displays says otherwise.

Which makes it as relevant as 4K.

Cheers

 

[almighty]

Which makes it as relevant as 4K.

Cheers

Meant to say sales of 3D displays are lack luster...