Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Cyan]

Our livelihood depends on people buying games...

Whether they upgrade to a new playstation or switch to an iPad doesn't really matter to me in many ways...

The part in bold type is obvious. The guy has a point there though.

The new consoles will need the developers as much as developers are going to need these new consoles.

People have to buy games but if you don't go with the times, it will get to a point that people will stop playing games because their machine got old, broke, etc.

I know I will get old, break and be all done some day, and new people will be there, it's law of life, and it happens with electronics and so on.

On a different note, I wonder how the new info provided by Digital Foundry journalists in their article about the new Xbox devkit will complement with the fact that the initial idea is to create an scalable console, and how they could scale the console so easily without radically changing its basic architecture.

 

[Arwin]

I think we'll see 1080p for most games, and a good chance they will be at 60fps, simply because most games next-gen are likely to support 3D for all games, with the added benefit of being able to do split-screen. I would almost be tempted to ask Sony and Microsoft to mandate this setup, but allow for WipeOut style dynamic downscaling when on-screen action gets too hectic as well as similar tricks like dynamically reduced shader loads and such.

But we all know that reality is very good at disappointing. Still, bandwidth and memory were often only just not sufficient for 1080p support, and the step up in terms of resolution this time isn't as crazy as it was coming from, typically, 720x240 or worse, to 1920x1080, and lets not forget going from 16bit pixels to 32bit if I remember correctly.

And yes, hardware will have to start at a lower price, but that should be compensated by this gen having lasted 2-3 years longer.

 

[Rangers]

More DaE tweets

It bugs me how he has changed his story/specs seemingly to reflect the prominent rumors. Now he's saying over 8GB ram (fitting with the 12 GB dev kit rumors) and AMD card (also fitting rumors)

I guess the last thing he told me was Intel/AMD CPU/GPU, so he hasnt directly contradicted the Intel CPU part yet.

Then again common sense if MS was already sourcing AMD on the GPU, it would seem AMD would throw them a sweet deal on some CPU too and it would all integrate better, etc.

I guess none of it changes the fact he definitely told me and Eurogamer Nvidia GPU at first, and now has changed his story. But again, maybe he just really doesnt pay much attention. Or maybe he was purposely spreading misinformation to be a dick, etc.

 

[archangelmorph]

Can you get the same kind of returns on mobile games yet?

I keep hearing our publishers talk about things like that...

Tell me what are these "returns" you speak of...?

 

[wco81]

Does mobile games development pay as well as console games?

At this point, mobile games require less work, no (scope of the projects are much smaller)? So maybe the compensation expectations are different?

 

[Rangers]

Talked to DaE again on IM. Asked him why he first said it was an Nvidia GPU then changed tune. He said he was probably drunk in Europe at the time lol.

He says he doesnt want to talk about the specs really, doesn't want them to get out, even though I pointed out he is not under NDA. But I asked if the GPU was closer to a 7770 or 7850, he said the former. Which does jive with what we've heard, shrug. That's all I could get out of him.

 

[kots]

But I asked if the GPU was closer to a 7770 or 7850, he said the former. Which does jive with what we've heard, shrug.

The 7770 is a dog , isn't it ?

 

[McHuj]

The 7770 is a dog , isn't it ?

Not at all. It's a 1.2 Tflop GPU. Many speculated that it's an ideal GPU for a console thanks to size, power, and performance. That's 5X in terms of raw flops over the 360, real world performance would probably be closer to 8x.

 

[kots]

Not at all. It's a 1.2 Tflop GPU. Many speculated that it's an ideal GPU for a console thanks to size, power, and performance. That's 5X in terms of raw flops over the 360, real world performance would probably be closer to 8x.

Thanks for the reply ... but for a console that's at least a year away , it is a horrible choice .
Barely acceptable now , laughable next year . I suppose it's fine if the 720 is priced at 199$ .

 

[SKYSONY]

Thanks for the reply ... but for a console that's at least a year away , it is a horrible choice .
Barely acceptable now , laughable next year . I suppose it's fine if the 720 is priced at 199$ .

Mind the 8 core processor might be expensive and the console seems to finally have 8 Gb of RAM, and that surely affect the costs.

It seems what bg has been saying for a while is true. The GPU seems to be weaker than the one on the first PS4 dev kits.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Mind the 8 core processor might be expensive and the console seems to finally have 8 Gb of RAM, and that surely affect the costs.

It seems what bg has been saying for a while is true. The GPU seems to be weaker than the one on the first PS4 dev kits.

then they will fail. you need a balanced system. one that has a CPU sitting idle because it's GPU cant keep up is a waist of money. A console that has a CPU doing extra GPU stuff it otherwise wouldn't just because the GPU cant keep up is a poor use of budget and power.

having 8-12 gigs of ram that is slow or doesn't have the CPU/GPU throughput to use it is again a waist of money and power.

I still think HSA based rumors make by far and away the most sense. look at what middle-ware and developers in general want ( more control over the pipeline, more general purpose). HSA with a new DX like based spec giving more flexibility in the pipeline is a big and logical step in that direction, HSA allowing the CPU to do complex graphics operations that are not stupidly parallel for the GPU and having the buses, caching etc for low latency high throughput.

A single SOC with wide stacked memory for massive throughput make it 4 gig in size. with streaming textures and ptr's etc while having media that has good transfer rates would you really need anymore ram?

then there is cost.
so far we have something stupid like
8 core intel monster
with 12 gig of ??? ram
and a 7770 ........

compared to something like
2 to 4 mod steamroller CPU
a 1.X TFLOP GPU
2 to 4 gig of ram on SOC

one is going to cost a truckload more then the other and one is way more balanced then the other. too many playing bigger number is better game without considering context. both sides have 20 points to spend, spend wisely.

now its bed time for this dyslexic man

 

[McHuj]

One thing that I was thinking about is that 192 GCN SP rumor from the EVGA forums. The architecture for a console GPU doesn't have to be exactly the same as the PC counter part, perhaps what MS feels better is that a 4-wide GCN SIMD would be more efficient then the current 16-wide implementation.

So that rumor would translate 192 of these "GCN SPs" to 768 actual shaders and at 1 GHz would give you about 1.5 Tflops of raw computer power. Performance would be between 7770 and 7850.

In terms of CPU power, it would need something more than just AVX unit to be really powerful, imo. The vector size is "only" 256-bit. 8 cores @ 2GHz with an AVX unit each would only give you a theoretical 128 gflops. I think going wider will pose major problems with cache size and performance requirements.

 

[fehu]

I remeber some tech demo from ati with some raytracing
it was the one with Ruby vs. Dog if i remember
And personally RT is a waste of research and resources, in a real game is something that you can appreciate only with a screenshot comparison

 

[Rangers]

moar DaE tweet (yeah, apologize for posting all these, but hey. it's August of the year before release, things pretty slow in speculation land).

Unclear to me if he means behind in timeline, or power. Anyways, his knowledge is probably not so strong about Orbis.

lherre did mention something about Durango being more firmed up than Orbis in his posts at some point.

 

[onQ]

putting aside the link to videos of a generic 2D fighting game, I'm sure there's a potential for a 3D raytracing console. only it will be specialised in games about perfectly spherical marbles and checkered backgrounds.
a new version of Marble Madness, one of Super Monkey Ball, or any concept you can work out from here, your imagination is the only limit

Look at the Stage, when I 1st looked at the video I seen nothing special but if you look at the stage it really does have a sense of depth to it.

 

[Sonic]

Wow, just look at the depth ray tracing gives the viewer -

http://xiznxt.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/just-what-is-ray-tracing/

It's as if you can enter the screen.

That's nice it has ray tracing. Good to know where they are putting their resources. Now all they need to do is put more money in their art department so we can have fluid moving characters in a 2d fighting game. Just need a couple more in between frames for their character animation and that should do it.

 

[ninelven]

Now all they need to do is put more money in their art department so we can have fluid moving characters in a 2d fighting game.

Yeeesh... you weren't kidding.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Wow, just look at the depth ray tracing gives the viewer -

http://xiznxt.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/just-what-is-ray-tracing/

It's as if you can enter the screen.

Oh purlease. It's a 2D screen, with a 2D projection of a 3D scene. Raytracing doesn't help that one iota. The same data rendered in a rasteriser would achieve the same result. Depth is just a matter of setting your draw distance. Exactly the same effect as whatever it is you think you are seeing could be rendered on a conventional forward renderer (although without the SEGA-tinted goggle, you'd claim it's something different). And probably is being achieved on a forward renderer on PC hardware inside that cabinet.

There are plenty of benefits to raytracing, but this arcade fighter isn't obviously demonstrating any of them. Without an official announcement from Sega that they are using RT in their arcade boards, I can only believe you're making this up. Like your raytracing stories from years ago.

Edit: Watch the gameplay on YouTube in 1080p. Zero AA and weak texture filtering. What a wonderful paradigm shift, and a glorious future for gaming...

 

[Acert93]

Not at all. It's a 1.2 Tflop GPU. Many speculated that it's an ideal GPU for a console thanks to size, power, and performance. That's 5X in terms of raw flops over the 360, real world performance would probably be closer to 8x.

No, 8 years later and looking at what can be packed into the area and TDP a 7770 is a dog. It is a major withdrawal from last gen budgets, let alone historical generational leaps.

Put another way, a 7770 hangs low enough that within 3 years of launch mobile products could have enough performance could get ports with "optimizations" (ala how PC games are optimized for console games today).

 

[RudeCurve]

Wow, just look at the depth ray tracing gives the viewer -

http://xiznxt.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/just-what-is-ray-tracing/

It's as if you can enter the screen.

Looks like a NeoGeo game...lol.