Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Magnus]

Well in pure FLOPs waving, you have 230.4 GFLOPS for CELL and another 400.4 for RSX, so 10x that would be a 6.308 TFLOP AMD SoC.

sure? Most sources report a more realistic number for rsx: http://timothylottes.blogspot.it/2011/01/3ds-and-ngp.html


The following are relevant facts about the RSX...
- Little Endian
- 8 vertex shaders at 500Mhz
- 28 pixel shaders (4 redundant, 24 active) at 550Mhz
- 28 texture units (4 redundant, 24 active)
- 8 Raster Operations Pipeline units (ROPs)
- Includes 256MB GDDR3 650Mhz clocked graphics memory
- Earlier PS3 Models: Samsung K4J52324QC-SC14 rated at 700Mhz
- Later PS3 Models: Qimonda HYB18H512322AF-14
- GDDR3 Memory interface bus width: 128bit
- Rambus XDR Memory interface bus width: 56bit out of 64bit (serial)

source: http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html#PS3_RSX_GPU


RSX is overrated

 

[onQ]

nVidia say current GPUs are 24x Xbox 360

& if you stuck one of them GPUs in a closed box & let devs take full advantage of it they will blow away anything you have seen on a PC as of now.

 

[SKYSONY]

I don´t Sony is gonna have just 2 GB of RAM, nor MS is using DDR3.

 

[sebbbi]

& if you stuck one of them GPUs in a closed box & let devs take full advantage of it they will blow away anything you have seen on a PC as of now.

Agreed. But I doubt that would happen straight away. It's of course considerably more efficient to optimize for a single fixed platform than to make your game run well on all different PC computers, but that's only a part of the whole truth.

Console developers know that the console hardware will last for many many years (7+ already for Xbox 360), so they can commit to it. Every project is a learning experience, and if you fast forward a few generations of games and technologies, the teams will have huge knowledge of the platform and lots of fine tuned technology (to exploit all the strengths of the platform and to evade all the weaknesses). You can never have as much learning effort in a single PC hardware generation. Not even close. It just doesn't have enough life time and market penetration.

If you compare recent console games to launch games released in 2005, the difference is huge. Game are now running on exactly the same hardware... Better code, better art, more time available to spend on developing the game and polishing it (because of existing knowledge, code reuse, more productive tools, smarter content pipelines, etc).

 

[Arwin]

Larger memory of course also makes development easier (streaming everything on demand with good prediction is a quite hard problem to solve perfectly for all cases).

What I am also missing from this discussion is that it is crucially important what storage medium we will have. If we would have something like 500MB/s read/write like modern SSD drives, that could make as big a difference as anything.

 

[onQ]

Agreed. But I doubt that would happen straight away. It's of course considerably more efficient to optimize for a single fixed platform than to make your game run well on all different PC computers, but that's only a part of the whole truth.

Console developers know that the console hardware will last for many many years (7+ already for Xbox 360), so they can commit to it. Every project is a learning experience, and if you fast forward a few generations of games and technologies, the teams will have huge knowledge of the platform and lots of fine tuned technology (to exploit all the strengths of the platform and to evade all the weaknesses). You can never have as much learning effort in a single PC hardware generation. Not even close. It just doesn't have enough life time and market penetration.

If you compare recent console games to launch games released in 2005, the difference is huge. Game are now running on exactly the same hardware... Better code, better art, more time available to spend on developing the game and polishing it (because of existing knowledge, code reuse, more productive tools, smarter content pipelines, etc).

yeah I know & there is also the fact that they can work on even more powerful hardware & learn the best ways to scale it down to run on the console hardware that's a lot weaker, like how it used to take a whole state of the art studio to make games for the SNES & PS1 & so on now some guy on his laptop can make these same games.

 

[upnorthsox]

VGLeaks has them up now.

http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-ps4-in-deep-first-specs/

I forgot they did say at the time it was based on 7000-series CUs.

I still wouldn't rule out at least some Sea Island influences though.

So BG, these are based off of you/your info? If so, can you elaborate on this:

>50% longer memory latency for CPU/ GPU compared to PC!!!

I don't understand what the context or comparison is.

Also, to the class as a whole. What are the Sea Island features that anyone is waiting for?

Is it just DX12 compatability? If so, what are these new hardware specs?

Again, what features could anyone be waiting on for MS or Sony to risk delaying a launch and alienating developers?

 

[cteam]

in my book 10X the PS3 is a beast

so somehow you believing the spec on insider from ps4
when your own jeff , on neogaf not believing , your PS4 rumor spec

GPUs and cheap branching bogus, CPUs branch easily, GPUs have a high setup latency so branching is expensive BOGUS!

i believe this is just from user just type then export to pdf

compare to this((below) (and somehow many not believe it)
this is actually inline with russian, or previosly xbox magazine and others
that said xbox is a beast yes if 4 core already 10x look at above ps4 spec
that what about 8 core x 2 : 16 core
do you still said xbox will be 6x yes funnyly this magic number 6x for xbox
always preferred.

 

[cteam]

What recent IGN survey?.

Mind the safe route doesn´t have to mean weak hardware. Sony could perfectly launch a console with a powerful hardware, maybe not the best one, but definitely not weak. I´m sure Sony wants to compete with MV in terms of dates an price.

of course i mean not weak

but somehow many still believing xbox will be 6x (magic number)
but believing sony will be more powerful (10x)



about the survey
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/06/01/the-next-generation-according-to-game-developers

From a hardware perspective, nearly 80% of respondents said Microsoft’s next console is the easiest to work with, and the overwhelming majority suspect it will be the sales leader over the next five years.

 

[TheWretched]

The overwhelming majority of analysts (i.e Pachter et al) also said PS3 would dominate, whereas Wii would falter and die in a short timeframe... guess what really happened.

 

[onQ]

so somehow you believing the spec on insider from ps4
when your own jeff , on neogaf not believing , your PS4 rumor spec


i believe this is just from user just type then export to pdf


compare to this((below) (and somehow many not believe it)
this is actually inline with russian, or previosly xbox magazine and others
that said xbox is a beast yes if 4 core already 10x look at above ps4 spec
that what about 8 core x 2 : 16 core
do you still said xbox will be 6x yes funnyly this magic number 6x for xbox
always preferred.

What? strangely you talk just like that Russian guy is that you?

& I didn't say xbox next will be 6x xbox 360 the documents said that & I was telling people that even if it is just 6X xbox it will still be good enough

& that is not a PDF it's a screen cap from the website VGleaks

 

[Ruskie]

Those PS4 specs were known since last couple months I think (vague specs that is). 4 core AMD x86 CPU, 7 series AMD GPU and 2 GB of RAM. They were posted some time ago by Dutch PS site, and were confirmed to be on point by BG and Iherre. Than another site took those specs by reading confirmations on GAF, put them nicely on their site and said their sources told them that. They also said they are 10 month old because Iherre said they are old (and its been about 10 months since DICE said 2 GB is to little).

@cteam

Can you clarify what are you posting? Xbox Surface is not Durango, neither those are specs for either of them.

 

[cteam]

What? strangely you talk just like that Russian guy is that you?

& I didn't say xbox next will be 6x xbox 360 the documents said that & I was telling people that even if it is just 6X xbox it will still be good enough

& that is not a PDF it's a screen cap from the website VGleaks

no definely iam not the russian
i even wrote the reply on his live journal just look at his livejournal
even if he is just a xbox fanboy, any rumored info is okay with me
even before his rumored spec
we already here 16core before from xbox magazine
from others too, so i dont know maybe they are wrong too



i just found out is fun to see that rumored ps4 spec
with added info like target : 1.84TFlop
target x10 ps3

it is like try to telling people calm down people
ps4 will be x10 ps3

 

[V3]

One 250GB 2.5" SCSI 10k RPM HDD ? Really ? It makes the entire thing sounds bogus.

Did anyone actually email rick to get the full doc ?

 

[cteam]

The overwhelming majority of analysts (i.e Pachter et al) also said PS3 would dominate, whereas Wii would falter and die in a short timeframe... guess what really happened.

we are talking about most developer confidence in MS
not the end result

the condfidence must come from somewhere else maybe
- the console itself is better (powerfull)
- the infrastructure
- revenue stream
- kinect v2
- smartglass
- the whole integration

 

[Ruskie]

Durango is rumored 8 core AMD x86 CPU (confirmed by Iherre, not IBM and not 16 core).

PS4 is rumored to have underclocked Pitcairn which is ~1.8 TFLOPS although those are last year specs and thats where they got ~10x from.

 

[ultragpu]

no definely iam not the russian
i even wrote the reply on his live journal just look at his livejournal
even if he is just a xbox fanboy, any rumored info is okay with me
even before his rumored spec
we already here 16core before from xbox magazine
from others too, so i dont know maybe they are wrong too



i just found out is fun to see that rumored ps4 spec
with added info like target : 1.84TFlop
target x10 ps3

it is like try to telling people calm down people
ps4 will be x10 ps3

Not exactly sure what you're trying to convey here especially when your grammar is ridiculously messy. But that 16 core definitely was not 16 steam roller core, sounds like tiny ARMs core to me.

 

[cteam]

Durango is rumored 8 core AMD x86 CPU (confirmed by Iherre, not IBM and not 16 core).

PS4 is rumored to have underclocked Pitcairn which is ~1.8 TFLOPS although those are last year specs and thats where they got ~10x from.

that's the AMD version ,btw the PPC version (still flip flop)
the first iteration is two custom PPC (6 core per PPC) thats 12 core number come from, look at rumored xbox surface spec sheet,

the latest rumors is 2 custom PPC (8 core per ppc) that's the 16 core number came from.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/04/12/report-next-xbox-to-sport-a-16-core-cpu
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57413857-1/xbox-720-to-ship-with-16-core-cpu/

but now MS still not decided between AMD (remember 8 core version is still early version i think), or PPC (latest one is 2 PPC , 8 core each)

if MS need better security , maybe they choose AMD
AMD has ARM core for security purposes (funny actually i remember
after reading the russian guy he mention it, arm is for security)
http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...ing-arm-processor-to-bolster-security-1084971

all inline with xbox is a beaast, ign survey
xbox has avatar etc
that is a 2011 xbox rumor
http://www.vg247.com/2011/07/18/amd-boss-talks-up-next-xboxs-graphics-and-ai/
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-XBox-720-Xbox-720-Avatar-Graphics-Neal-Robison,13095.html

 

[Brimstone]

Better security so Microsoft is going with AMD x86? That to me doesn't make much sense. MS has plenty of cash and can have IBM design whatever they desire with a Power core.

But if Microsoft really was willing to switch from Power to something else why even bother with x86? Nvidia is commiting vast resources to ARM with Maxwell. MS is already using nVidia with Surface as well.

 

[Prophecy2k]

that's the AMD version ,btw the PPC version (still flip flop)
the first iteration is two custom PPC (6 core per PPC) thats 12 core number come from, look at rumored xbox surface spec sheet,

the latest rumors is 2 custom PPC (8 core per ppc) that's the 16 core number came from.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/04/12/report-next-xbox-to-sport-a-16-core-cpu
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57413857-1/xbox-720-to-ship-with-16-core-cpu/

but now MS still not decided between AMD (remember 8 core version is still early version i think), or PPC (latest one is 2 PPC , 8 core each)

if MS need better security , maybe they choose AMD
AMD has ARM core for security purposes (funny actually i remember
after reading the russian guy he mention it, arm is for security)
http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...ing-arm-processor-to-bolster-security-1084971

all inline with xbox is a beaast, ign survey
xbox has avatar etc
that is a 2011 xbox rumor
http://www.vg247.com/2011/07/18/amd-boss-talks-up-next-xboxs-graphics-and-ai/
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-XBox-720-Xbox-720-Avatar-Graphics-Neal-Robison,13095.html

cteam you're linking to and posting rumours that are total fabrications.

The xbox surface spec sheet, the Russian "insider"... all fake. Just dudes trying to get some attention.

I think on Durangos side the only convincing sources we have are Lherre's comments, bgassassins and Ranger's sources. Everyone else is likely either making stuff up or parroting what these three guys are saying.