Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

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a commercial game engine is an API in itself. I'm sure Epic would like to get rid of a bloated layer even if they have to deal with many code paths. rather, they want to do the tight code paths themselves they would have a range of backends such as xbox 360, xbox 720, AMD GCN, nvidia Maxwell, something like Tegra and Qualcomm etc. and still D3D and Opengl ES if needed.

this reminds me of doom3 with its many codepaths (including one giving full features on geforce 1), or even the original UT.
an indie developer couldn't do all of this by the way (if you think directX is bad, there's minecraft using java and opengl and it's very successfull)
 
XpiderMX said:
What if Unreal Engine 4 is C++ AMP based? Microsoft is promoting C++ AMP in Visual Studio 2011 and Eric Mejdrich (currently working at Microsoft) have been working in a "Network on Chip" for IBM (PowerPC A2?).
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If they move away from triangle rasterization then that's possible. C++ AMP would be a potential choice if they chose raytracing (voxels or triangles) or point cloulds. It will be interesting to see how many developers (if any) are moving away from the traditional models in their next engines. With proper GPU compute APIs we can finally use the the massive parallel computational resources of GPUs for other purposes than triangle rasterization.
 
sebbbi said:
If they move away from triangle rasterization then that's possible. C++ AMP would be a potential choice if they chose raytracing (voxels or triangles) or point cloulds. It will be interesting to see how many developers (if any) are moving away from the traditional models in their next engines. With proper GPU compute APIs we can finally use the the massive parallel computational resources of GPUs for other purposes than triangle rasterization.
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Can it be possible with a "Larrabee like" CPU and the new Hybrid Memory Cube?
 
XpiderMX said:
Can it be possible with a "Larrabee like" CPU and the new Hybrid Memory Cube?
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As I understand it, the DRAM cubes help traditional rendering approaches more than the radical new ones. To do raytracing or other such things, what you want to be able to do is traverse complex in-memory structures efficiently. This means you'd like to have a low memory latency. Memory cubes bring absurdly wide memory interfaces, which means unconstrained bandwidth, but they don't really help latency all *that* much.

If there was a credible faster alternative to DRAM, that would swing the balance.
 
tunafish said:
As I understand it, the DRAM cubes help traditional rendering approaches more than the radical new ones. To do raytracing or other such things, what you want to be able to do is traverse complex in-memory structures efficiently. This means you'd like to have a low memory latency. Memory cubes bring absurdly wide memory interfaces, which means unconstrained bandwidth, but they don't really help latency all *that* much.

If there was a credible faster alternative to DRAM, that would swing the balance.
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Well there is RLDRAM (Reduced Latency) from Micron, recently they announced RLDRAM-3.

There is FCDRAM (Fast Cycle) as well.


I'm guessing Rambus could tweak their DRAM core as well to attack latency. They were talking about Microthreading a while back to help with dealing with triangles.
 
About Unreal Engine 4:

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/05/ff_unreal4/all/1

Looks like Durango and Orbis needs more power for UE4:

TIM SWEENEY: "There is a huge responsibility on the shoulders of our engine team and our studio to drag this industry into the next generation," said Gears of War design director Cliff Bleszinski. "It is up to Epic, and Tim Sweeney in particular, to motivate Sony and Microsoft not to phone in what these next consoles are going to be. It needs to be a quantum leap. They need to damn near render Avatar in real time, because I want it and gamers want it - even if they don't know they want it."

Sweeney added: "We're much more in sync with the console makers than any other developer is. That means we can give detailed recommendations with a complete understanding of what is going to be commercially possible."

Apparently Epic has seen the specs of the PS4 and next Xbox and is "actively lobbying" for them to be more powerful.
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I'm neutral on the UE4 screenies.

Hopefully "the Carmack" can once again pull a rabbit out of his hat for next-gen. Give him holographic storage and let him blow us away.
 
The tech is already set in stone unless they come in late 2014. Only thing they could change is memory amounts and if they have gone for unified memory 2GB looks max.
 
I wonder how much RAM they'll reserve next gen for multi-tasking / background processing / social features. Sony had a big memory reservation this gen but didn't seem to spend it anything like as efficiently as what MS was able to achieve.

2 gigs just doesn't seem like a lot, in any event.
 
Epic are putting way too much importance on their own company. The first party studios are way more "in sync" with Sony and they use their own engine. Sure Epic is in bed with Microsoft so they have a privileged position, but would anyone believe they are more "in sync" with Sony than Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica Studios, etc... ?

I suppose the importance of these privileged third party studios is that they have both dev kits and they can say "pssst... you should double the ram, I'm not allowed to tell you why, but you REALLY should!" :rolleyes:

Latest unreliable rumor I heard was that both dev kits had 8GB, that would mean 4GB on final consoles? Would be fine, I don't care if it's split ram or not, having only 2GB would be really sad.
 
MrFox said:
Epic are putting way too much importance on their own company. The first party studios are way more "in sync" with Sony and they use their own engine. Sure Epic is in bed with Microsoft so they have a privileged position, but would anyone believe they are more "in sync" with Sony than Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica Studios, etc... ?

I suppose the importance of these privileged third party studios is that they have both dev kits and they can say "pssst... you should double the ram, I'm not allowed to tell you why, but you REALLY should!" :rolleyes:

Latest unreliable rumor I heard was that both dev kits had 8GB, that would mean 4GB on final consoles? I don't care if it's split ram or not, having only 2GB would be really sad.
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When you are engine provider of some of the highest selling 3rd party games I would assume companies like MS and Sony would like to be in sync with you.
 
Ruskie said:
When you are engine provider of some of the highest selling 3rd party games I would assume companies like MS and Sony would like to be in sync with you.
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Sure they'd listen, but he said they are much more in sync than any other developers.

Let's suppose Epic ask sony for more power toward the CPU than the GPU, while Naughty Dog needs the opposite for their engine. I just don't see Sony sacrificing their flagship studio, for the sake of a third party, no matter how big it is. Epic might be an important 3rd party, but not "much more" important than Naughty Dog. Unless they sealed an exclusive from Epic with as much potential as Gears... that's not gonna happen.
 
babybumb said:
The tech is already set in stone unless they come in late 2014. Only thing they could change is memory amounts and if they have gone for unified memory 2GB looks max.
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Rumor (completely random rumor) was the PS4 was 2GB and XB3 4GB.

I cant help but have the feeling Epic is trying to pull the PS4 up to be more on XB3's level with their lobbying. I have no evidence for that though just my hunch. It's also possible both are underwhelming.

Is the tech really "set in stone" this early? Hell Nintenbots are probably trying to say Wii U hardware is still improving, and it's out this year...
 
MrFox said:
Sure they'd listen, but he said they are much more in sync than any other developers.

Let's suppose Epic ask sony for more power toward the CPU than the GPU, while Naughty Dog needs the opposite for their engine. I just don't see Sony sacrificing their flagship studio, for the sake of a third party, no matter how big it is. Epic might be an important 3rd party, but not "much more" important than Naughty Dog. Unless they sealed an exclusive from Epic with as much potential as Gears... that's not gonna happen.
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Couldn't you argue Epic are more important than naughty dog are because so many games are on UE?
 
Brimstone said:
I'm neutral on the UE4 screenies.

Hopefully "the Carmack" can once again pull a rabbit out of his hat for next-gen. Give him holographic storage and let him blow us away.
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Carmack seems to have lost the plot, in more ways than one. I had high hopes for Doom 4 visuals being the pinnacle of this gen...then I saw the leaked screens :cry:

If you look at Carmack interviews he barely even cares about graphics anymore for some years...not coincidentally Id games are doing worse and worse.

I am pretty underwhelmed by the UE4 screens. OTOH it was a team of 14 people in 3 months so....and maybe it looks much better in motion.
 
AlphaWolf said:
I'd certainly say they are. UE is behind hundreds of current gen games. Naughty dog a handful.
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These are the best selling games on PS3:
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=&publisher=&platform=PS3&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

This is the list of UE3 based games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3

Doesn't seem very important on PS3, no exclusives at all, no AAA system sellers, in fact very few sold much on PS3. But it's very important on PC and X360 though... if PS4 really have an X86 CPU that should make Epic happy, but I still don't see Sony doing anything for Epic without at least an exclusive or something big in return. They have many important studios to please...
 
Rangers said:
Carmack seems to have lost the plot, in more ways than one. I had high hopes for Doom 4 visuals being the pinnacle of this gen...then I saw the leaked screens :cry:

If you look at Carmack interviews he barely even cares about graphics anymore for some years...not coincidentally Id games are doing worse and worse.

I am pretty underwhelmed by the UE4 screens. OTOH it was a team of 14 people in 3 months so....and maybe it looks much better in motion.
Click to expand...

I guess in that showcase the technology was more important than the art, since it was made to impress developers/ hardware makers.
An heavily detailed world, full of dynamic light sources, and with millions of particles running real-time.. well it's going to be really impressive. Let's wait for the video ;)
 
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