Ninjaprime said:
It isn't SomeRandomGuy claiming the CPU uses EDRAM. It was IBM themselves, at the time of its introduction, and it is additionally stated directly in the beginning of their official press release.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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It isn't SomeRandomGuy claiming the CPU uses EDRAM. It was IBM themselves, at the time of its introduction, and it is additionally stated directly in the beginning of their official press release.
Only if they try really, really hard.
This is posted on GAF...looks like the process shrink free lunch is ending
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...y-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...y-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless
But 3d stacking doesn't make transistors cheaper. The important part about scaling is not just that it allows more transistors per are, or that it makes transistors faster, it's that it makes them *cheap*.
Once we start scaling up, if it's done by just stacking chips we get considerable speed advantages (shorter distances in a cube than in a plane), but each transistor still costs the same.
Well that's a bummer, people are talking about graphene tech but until that reaches maturity we're just gonna have to make do with what's available I guess.
3D stacking allows the use of older processes to provide more transistors in the same product, and it can potentially reduce the cost of long-distance communication across a die if the trip can instead drop down a level immediately below the starting point.
There are still things that can be done with more transistors, and other benefits such as massively higher bandwidth and a reduction in power consumption if 2.5D or 3D integration can be commercialized with DRAM nestled close to the chip.
What the chart below on cost/transistor may not include is that the cost of a design on the newer processes is also increasing rapidly.
Even after the crossover in cost/transistor, there's a large deficit to be made up in terms of the engineering needed to even make a chip on it.
There are still things that can be done with more transistors, and other benefits such as massively higher bandwidth and a reduction in power consumption if 2.5D or 3D integration can be commercialized with DRAM nestled close to the chip.
What the chart below on cost/transistor may not include is that the cost of a design on the newer processes is also increasing rapidly.
Even after the crossover in cost/transistor, there's a large deficit to be made up in terms of the engineering needed to even make a chip on it.
Maybe for best performance for your bucks, consoles should adopt the multiple GPU solutions like XFire and SLI. I'm sure they work better in consoles environment then they do in PC.
Also, there's more and more ramping up of next gen development if anybody missed it
Remedy
Silicon Knights
Ready At Dawn (Likely PS4)
Zindagi Games (PS4)
Remedy
Silicon Knights
Ready At Dawn (Likely PS4)
Zindagi Games (PS4)
steampoweredgod
Banned
Sooner or later the jump to biological should occur. Hopefully we don't get a dark ages of a few decades.
Ninjaprime
Regular
Hmm interesting, never seen that one specifically. I wonder if its just marketing translation and the eDRAM is on CPU with the ROPs, like Xenos, but with the daughter die actually on the CPU die, could lead to some interesting bandwidth/latency improvements. Makes sense, because the eDRAM is most certainly from IBM, but if they have a GPU made somewhere else the eDRAM either has to be a on a daughter die or on the CPU. In the usual sense, large eDRAM on the CPU isn't that useful in a console, but if it was like I described above it has some benefits.
Yeah, absolutely. Intel, AMD and the various ARM licensees put out CPUs weaker than Xenon even now in 2012. A lot depends on how much they want to spend on manufacturing the chips and how much power they want the things to consume.
It's also quite possible that the WiiU CPU will be lower in some statistic or other but be faster in real terms when running real software. If the WiiU has a tri core CPU running at less than the 360's 3.2 gHz then the paper FLOPS could be lower, while actual code that uses floating point operations runs faster.
Three important things to remember about the WiiU:
- 45nm
- 4cm case fan
- Nintendo
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
Yeah, absolutely. Intel, AMD and the various ARM licensees put out CPUs weaker than Xenon even now in 2012. A lot depends on how much they want to spend on manufacturing the chips and how much power they want the things to consume.
It's also quite possible that the WiiU CPU will be lower in some statistic or other but be faster in real terms when running real software. If the WiiU has a tri core CPU running at less than the 360's 3.2 gHz then the paper FLOPS could be lower, while actual code that uses floating point operations runs faster.
Three important things to remember about the WiiU:
- 45nm
- 4cm case fan
- Nintendo
I totally agree, WiiU would be about efficiency and low cost a la gamecube and not processing power a la PS2.
People expecting Nintendo to deliver a WiiU that produces a noticeably better visuals than say Uncharted 3, the Last of Us, Killzone 3, Halo 4, the new assassins creed, the new bioshock....etc would be hugely disappinted.
french toast
Veteran
I don't get it, how does Ninty sell crap hardware? granted they have innovated tremendously and must be congratulated on their business model, but seriously 3DS?? thats dreadull tech for 2011 hell its crap for 2008 bar the 3d screen gimmick.
They have a perfect oppotunity this generation to put the hammer down..to make a console that sells at a profit from the get go and be 3 times the performance of a 360..easy....if they don't then they are dumb as hell as the cost savings of a cheap crappy console will be negated by the swift price reductions when true next gen turns up.
Wii went down a storm due to Nintys very clever marketing and carefully tailored for demographic..(kids, familly) that and something completely new..motion control...this time they will have no such advantage.
Something like a quad core OoO PPC cpu.
2gb gddr5 unified.
AMD 6850 class gpu.
That is perfectly doable for 2012 and would provide plenty of power to hit 3x real gaming increase..anything less and i fear Ninty is going broke.
They have a perfect oppotunity this generation to put the hammer down..to make a console that sells at a profit from the get go and be 3 times the performance of a 360..easy....if they don't then they are dumb as hell as the cost savings of a cheap crappy console will be negated by the swift price reductions when true next gen turns up.
Wii went down a storm due to Nintys very clever marketing and carefully tailored for demographic..(kids, familly) that and something completely new..motion control...this time they will have no such advantage.
Something like a quad core OoO PPC cpu.
2gb gddr5 unified.
AMD 6850 class gpu.
That is perfectly doable for 2012 and would provide plenty of power to hit 3x real gaming increase..anything less and i fear Ninty is going broke.
DoctorFouad
Newcomer
they did what you are talking about with the game cube, and look how that turned out for them....
it is not an underpowered WiiU that would kill nintendo (nor sony or microsoft for that matter, if it was for hardware, than PC should have killed all consoles long time ago, people buy consoles for the games and services delivered, a powerful hardware is just a mean to achiive that), it is the software that is important. the success of the wiiU will depend exactly on what depended the success of the Wii : software loved by a lot of consumers.
can they deliver that ? no one knows, it depends on nintendo capacity to satisfy consumers demands, they did great with the Wii, lets see how they will do with the WiiU.
I don't think you're in touch with exactly how costly a system that's 3x as powerful as the current XB360/PS3 would be in order to sell for a profit.
All it would take is an off the shelf 3ghz core2duo and a decent in 2010 terms GPU, along with say, 2-4gb of ram, to beat the 360 and PS3 to smithereens. Talking consoles, you can get a lot of performance out of that, especially at 720p @ 60fps 1080p/30fps
360 were designed in 2005 for pete's sake...
Honestly without shooting for the stars and looking at a probable fall 2013 for the next Xbox with Sony following suit in anytime 2014 Nintendo had indeed a chance to satisfy both their traditional user base, the Wii user base (assuming the new controller tilt with them) and more serious gamers.
I completely agreed with Patcher's prediction, the WiiU is late, f*****g late.
For the spec it would not have take that much for them to position their hardware as an in between generation even while relying on 45 nm and 40 nm lithography. When it all say and done I believe it will be clear that the Wiiu could have been produce earlier.
To give a picture:
dual core, close parent to POWER7, OoO / 4 way SMT / 8 wide SIMD running north of 2GHz
Modified Redwood GPU acting as the northbrige.
1GB of not that fast GDDR5 (say 800MHz).
The thing could have launched as early as fall 2010 (hd 5670 launched in January 2010, POWER 7 february of the same year). That kind of hardware fits (fitted at the time) in laptop. Completely doable imho. The thing would have been in line with PC evolution. EA was working on the frostbite engine 2, Crytek on Cryengine, etc. Epic too may have had intensive to use the platform as a show off for their always evolving and improving engine. It could have been an enabler for PC tech to evolve just a bit faster (with the result of nowadays console looking even more dated). Not too mention how user base evolved in the mean time.
They missed a big opportunity. We are in 2012 they will ship basically the same hardware, ps3 & 360 user bases have grown a lot, the same can be told about their respective online infrastructure. Where is Nintendo now in this regard, nobody expect them to be where Sony and MS are anytime soon (we're speaking year of development here).
The Wiiumote looks like a really late addition to the system. For me that the role the 3DS should play and by the way I believe that Nintendo should have move from the old DS design...
it's pretty much my rant but I still don't believe that the WiiUmote and the 3ds look like they were designed in insulation
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3x?....I'm pretty sure PS4/Durango will be 10x, easy, as every prior gen has been.
3X would be the 6670, which doesnt seem very costly.
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