DuckThor Evil
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Not that it's super important, but AMD 38xx chips were 192mm2, had a devilish 666 transistors @55nm.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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Not that it's super important, but AMD 38xx chips were 192mm2, had a devilish 666 transistors @55nm.
AlphaWolf said:
You do know that Jen-Hsun Huang is the CEO of Nvidia and as such is accountable to the stockholders for the information he is sharing?
If he says they are building one of the next gen consoles, I am inclined to believe there is some truth behind it.
Who are the sources behind the idea that AMD got the GPU contracts of all the next gen consoles?
What were the exact words used?
"We will build one of them, right."
Rumors from some E3 or CES or something were the originals claiming AMD holds contracts for all 3.
The way Huang said what he said pretty much confirms AMD is making all of them if nV had the deal in their pocket even for one, he would have made it clear, and not just state that "one company isn't capable of building all 3" as the only reasoning why nV would make gfx for one of them.
2.5D is what they're doing right now with memory chips, right? They said it works well only if all chips are identical, so it could be perfect for stacking the Cell processors, connecting the EIB between identical chips. Adding as many as the target TDP allows.
Indeed I double confirm
It's somehow important at least for my talk...
~200 sq.mm 256 bit bus
~150 sq.mm 192 bit bus
~100 sq.mm 128 bit bus.
Then depending on the price per lithography, 200 sq.mm with high yield may be cheaper than a tinier part on bleeding edge process.
Big IF 90nm wafer are on third of the price of 32/28nm then 200sq.mm is cheap. Cooling will be easier cheaper (bigger area).
Whatever is stuck to the Northbridge you remove quiet an headache looking forward, like Edram but in a more flexible way and with more benefits.
Blazkowicz
Legend
chip stacking may refer to the memory only. there was talk on that forum about putting stacked memory dies on the same package as a CPU/GPU chip, both on top of an intermediary layer with a huge lot of connections, and that would give truly ginormous amount of bandwith on about a gigabyte of memory.
well there was talk of it on this very topic, the use of "silicon interposer".
that would be seriously great on the PS4, and is an integrated design you won't find for a while on PCs.
it's also easier/understood technology, manufacturing DRAM and stacking it is easier while stacking power hungry CPU/GPU slices is a much harder problem (including cooling) and is far away, perhaps the end of the current decade.
well there was talk of it on this very topic
, the use of "silicon interposer".that would be seriously great on the PS4, and is an integrated design you won't find for a while on PCs.
it's also easier/understood technology, manufacturing DRAM and stacking it is easier while stacking power hungry CPU/GPU slices is a much harder problem (including cooling) and is far away, perhaps the end of the current decade.
Sigh.
I know who he is, he didn't actually say it, he sort of implied they would have to do it. So he is not responsible in any way to anyone for that tidbit of non-information.
I really don't know if they will or won't, but I don't see that quote as any confirmation one way or the other.
Not really. 2.5D means that several chips are mounted on a common silicon substrate (interposer). The main advantages are that it allows a compact package and high bandwith at low signal voltage, read very power efficient.
This is a quite informative read on the subject
http://www.monolithic3d.com/2/post/2011/12/is-the-buzz-around-xilinxs-25d-fpga-justified.html
My impression was that stacking was to be more useful for ULP mobile setups, not a couple hundred TDP behemoths, let alone >50W.
My impression was that stacking was to be more useful for ULP mobile setups, not a couple hundred TDP behemoths, let alone >50W.
That is the beauty of 2.5D. You dont stack power hungry chips on top of each other, but next to each other on a common silicon interposer, which still gives most of the advantages with regard to fast and power efficient communication that 3D stacking offers.
Sony seems pretty keen on this technology.
http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/12/maasaki-tsu-interview.cfm
and....
http://www.electroiq.com/blogs/insi...l-summit-part-2-3dic-technology-and-test.html
Not sure how applicable it is, but a true 3D chip, with processors and ram, taped out in october from Sony-Ericsson:
http://eda360insider.wordpress.com/...the-advanced-notes-can-you-say-tour-de-force/
"The finalized Wide I/O spec operates at 266 Mtransfers/sec using an SDR (Single Data Rate) protocol, which delivers 17 Gbytes/sec of data throughput via four parallel, independent, 128-bit memory channels (4.26 Gbytes/sec/channel)."
This is at minuscule cell-phone power level. So even if they end up doing "only" 2.5D, could we get something like a terabyte or two per second?
http://eda360insider.wordpress.com/...the-advanced-notes-can-you-say-tour-de-force/
"The finalized Wide I/O spec operates at 266 Mtransfers/sec using an SDR (Single Data Rate) protocol, which delivers 17 Gbytes/sec of data throughput via four parallel, independent, 128-bit memory channels (4.26 Gbytes/sec/channel)."
This is at minuscule cell-phone power level. So even if they end up doing "only" 2.5D, could we get something like a terabyte or two per second?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brianca...w-console-in-the-works-amd-building-graphics/
This just keeps going on and on, so it's back to AMD's so says rumor.
This just keeps going on and on, so it's back to AMD's so says rumor.
OK I may have been wrong
In all seriousness though I dont tend to believe random rumors, but then again I suppose the Forbes name gives it a bit more cred.
OK I may have been wrong
In all seriousness though I dont tend to believe random rumors, but then again I suppose the Forbes name gives it a bit more cred.
It's funny to see how both companies "AMD & Nvidia" are contradicting to each other in their statements. Technically speaking one should put more credibility in Jen sung Huang's words since he is still NV's CEO over an ex AMD employee. I would be very surprised if Sony switched company this soon. But in the end I think it's better for Sony to side with NV mainly due to backwards compatibility reason.
bgassassin
Regular
But the only thing I've seem to have heard from nVidia was the assumption that they would make a GPU for a console only because no one could handle all three. I had heard people talk about nVidia saying they were handling a console in the past, but that was my first time seeing the actual context. The few rumors I have seen about the PS4 have all pointed to an AMD GPU.
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