and as has been said before, xbox 360 dev kits launched with an x800, a shipping xbox 720 in 2013 or 2014 would certainly ship with newer hardware than 7000 series.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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and as has been said before, xbox 360 dev kits launched with an x800, a shipping xbox 720 in 2013 or 2014 would certainly ship with newer hardware than 7000 series.
french toast
Veteran
Guys, those of you harbouring hopes of a e3 reveal are misguided, its not going to happen, they stated as much.
I am begining to wander whether we will get another console, i think at least sony might drop out all together.
Consoles are too expensive to play the high end, ninty usually pull rabbits out of the hat, if they can make a small innovative console, thats 50% more powerfull than 360, and easy to port, which sells at a profit from the get go, then they will be quids in, especially as any new console will not debut before 2013, earliest.
For specs, im going with 4-6gb xdr2/3 Quad core OoO CPU with 4 way SMT.
An underclocked hd 8850 class gpu.
Some propreity flash storage for games, everygame rendered native 1080p with a powerfull scaler chip capable of scaling to 2500x1600
I am begining to wander whether we will get another console, i think at least sony might drop out all together.
Consoles are too expensive to play the high end, ninty usually pull rabbits out of the hat, if they can make a small innovative console, thats 50% more powerfull than 360, and easy to port, which sells at a profit from the get go, then they will be quids in, especially as any new console will not debut before 2013, earliest.
For specs, im going with 4-6gb xdr2/3 Quad core OoO CPU with 4 way SMT.
An underclocked hd 8850 class gpu.
Some propreity flash storage for games, everygame rendered native 1080p with a powerfull scaler chip capable of scaling to 2500x1600
Ninjaprime
Regular
Dream on. Half that is probably an upper limit, if its on 28nm. So maybe a 7870, or whatever the 1024 shader 7000 series product is.
Why are we still so hellbent on maximum console TDP of ~200W?
What prevents console makers to go up to 250W?
Was there any significant improvements in cooling tech in the last five years, ever since last batch of 200W ps3's and x360's was on market?
What is the cost of a vapor chamber cooling for modern GPU's [and did ps3/x360 use vapour chambers]?
What prevents console makers to go up to 250W?
Was there any significant improvements in cooling tech in the last five years, ever since last batch of 200W ps3's and x360's was on market?
What is the cost of a vapor chamber cooling for modern GPU's [and did ps3/x360 use vapour chambers]?
250w console TDP is still only going to leave 150w for the GPU after you factor in the CPU, RAM, Drives and fans...etc...etc..
The only real change has been in budget watercooling, Air coolers for GPU's and CPU have not changed much if it all over the last 5 years.
You also have to factor in noise, A 7970, 6970 or any other enthusiast level PC GPU is noisy, Not really an issue to a PC gamer but a noisy console? Not really desirable.
I don't think people in here are being realistic, They're just throwing around big specs and hoping without putting serious thought into it.
Can you really see a 7970 in there knowing the amount of heat it generates? The noise required to cool it? The power it draws?
Do you really think it'll have a 8000 series GPU knowing that a) They're not out b) The time it takes it make it happen c) Without knowing the specs and TDP of the GPU's?
For all we know the 8000 series could only offer slight improvements like the 6000 series did over the 5000 series.
me said:
Yes, we really can expect that the die budget will be geared more toward the GPU with the GPU taking more burden off the CPU.
Yes, we really can expect a ~500mm2 budget as it was last time.
A 325Mhz under clock?
You might get better performance from a card with less shaders but with a higher core clock imo..
No.
Considering the original 360 already had heat pipes, using more would just increase the cost and weight of the unit. Heatpipes are also just a more efficient way of transferring heat from the chip to the larger set of aluminum fins; you're still going to need faster and/or bigger fans in order to dissipate the heat from the system.
So the only way to increase the TDP budget is to...shock...horror... increase the costs of the design and perhaps the size of the unit to accommodate more heatpipes, larger/more aluminum heatsinks, and larger/more fans.
Microsoft was actually quite keen to skimp on the cooling despite that and they sure as heck tried to ditch the heatpipes as soon as they could for the Falcon revision - the CPU block had a heatpipe design for Xenon and Zephyr revisions.
The heatpipe that was added to the GPU block was kept until Jasper (well, initially they kept it, but later production runs had it removed), but then that was a pretty wacky design modification to begin with.
A 6870 at 715Mhz wouldn't be that much faster then a fully clocked 6850, And there's a few 6850's that run just on the power provided by the PCIEX slot!
The 6990m is 75W. So same power and slightly faster... looks like a win.
It takes around 940Mhz on the core of a desktop 6850 to match and sometimes beat a stock clocked 6870.
6850 is 775Mhz stock
6870 is 900Mhz stock
6850 at 940Mhz is a 18% overclock
6870 at 725mhz ( 6990m ) is a 20% under clock
So a stock clocked 6850 would be on par if not slightly faster...
Looking at the power consumption a 6850 at 940Mhz core is only 3-4watts more power hungry under load then a stock clocked 6870, With some third party versions running with no external PCIEX power plug you could bet that a couple of stock clocked 6850's could be made to run with even less power and still offer the same performance.
east of eastside
Newcomer
This is why I advocate an ARM CPU solution for a next-gen console if it were possible.
Applied Micro's ARMv8 64bit server chip is supposed to run on 2 watts per core @ 3GHZ while maintaing a 300mw idle, all at half the interger performance of a Sandybridge Xeon.
Basing that as a metric, if you could up with some 6 core ARM 64bit CPU solution that ran about 12 watts you could fee up a significant amount of the TDP to better attribute it to GPU performance.
It could all be on a single piece of silicon as a GPGPU SoC.
Yep...and I'm thinking Apple's 64bit 8 core A8 processor would be perfect for a console CPU coupled with a 8 core PowerVR Rogue GPU...
Do you have a link for this? I'd like to read up on the processor.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5098/applied-micros-xgene-the-first-armv8-soc
Seems it may not be as fast as initially projected.
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east of eastside
Newcomer
Yeah, I guess there is a question mark in terms of performance, but I'm confident MS or Sony could make a more aggressive console class CPU than AMCC. Plus they will own the IP and can reuse it in other devices. Might be particularly advantageous for MS.
Imagine a few years into 720's life doing a 720 based tablet or even licensing the entire 720 tech (along with Kinect 2.0) to tv manufacturers for use in smart tv's.
That's why I'm such a big proponent of the ARM console as there is so much potential for the design along with the cost and power consumption benefits.
I'm not sure if 2014 is soon enough though for an ARM console, unfortunately.
Ms could do this now with Xenon/Xenos. They own that IP too.
There are other alternate architectures which give Arm a run for their money. The PPC 470 line is pretty impressive.
Could they have updated the Xbox 360 in such a way that it needs to go back to developers for testing and development purposes as a new dev kit? What if they're trying to turn it into a multi-use device? Would say for example adding another core or something silly in order to give the console better multitasking as say a DVR/Games console etc rolled into one mean they'd need to roll out new development kits?
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