Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Kaotik]

Microsoft is schizophrenic ... it has no single aim ... AFAICS the predominant direction though is to try to position the PC for social games, while trying to drive PC gamers towards the XBOX 360 for the rest.

If I see them launch some major RPG or FPS titles on GfWL and XBOX 360 simultaneously I'll believe differently. I imagine those will stay on steam&co rather than having GfWL integration though as far as the PC is concerned, or launch with great delay on the PC.

They're indeed schizophrenic a bit on their aims, but the latest is that you can actually play XB360 games on Windows 8 machines

 

[Gubbi]

They're indeed schizophrenic a bit on their aims, but the latest is that you can actually play XB360 games on Windows 8 machines

That would be a great excuse to leave out backwards compatibility of the next generation XBOX. Just buy a bitching fast PC and Windows 8.

Cheers

 

[pjbliverpool]

They're indeed schizophrenic a bit on their aims, but the latest is that you can actually play XB360 games on Windows 8 machines

I've seen the rumors but that absolutely isn't going to happen. The hardware differences are to great with too much "to the metal" coding on the 360 for its games to work through DX. Effectively this would be a 360 emulator through Wndows 8.

It wuld be amazing to be sure but I'll go on record now as saying no way in hell.

 

[function]

That would be a great excuse to leave out backwards compatibility of the next generation XBOX. Just buy a bitching fast PC and Windows 8.

I'd assume that could only work for digital purchases, otherwise you'd need a MS certified DVD drive ... or something something disk image piracy.

It would also mean there was a working emulator, which could run on an x86 next gen console giving MS the ability to switch to a Fusion based system. Could be a real boost for Windows gaming too.

 

[hoho]

My bet is someone misunderstood what they meant by playing XB games on PC and in reality they just allow you to stream games through LAN to your screen and use PC controllers to play.

 

[NRP]

That would be a great excuse to leave out backwards compatibility of the next generation XBOX. Just buy a bitching fast PC and Windows 8.

Cheers

And I'd do just that. On Day 1.

Seriously, if they actually do this, it would be incredibly awesome.

 

[Devious]

Wouldn't they use current tech like they did in the 360? If they aren't launching till 2013 or 2014, I think you need to look at what product is going to be available for that timeline and expect something based on that rather than anything available now.

You know, I never really thought of it that way. Thanks for knocking some sense into this poor old noob.

 

[patsu]

Sorry if was post before.


Google (!) and Apple on console market!?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/632357...-game-console-war-thq-ceo?tag=newstop;title;5

It sounds APUs,Sandybridge/Ivybridge(IBM bye bye..) like for everyone?

Games at US$10 OMG(very cheap or going way much more expensive ...game chapter 1,2 and 3 = US$10... I know..exaggerated but ...) !


"service orientation of the gamer" =~ Increased focus on interactivity and services for gamers (what does mean this..see youtube in a little window and playing at same time?)?

(And here I thought the Wii was the end of the core market ...)

It means the very definition of gamers have changed. My family is traveling in Europe now. Wife and kid have been fighting over the iPad for Plants vs Zombies. It's a little surreal to see my wife talk about her PvZ achievements.

I reckon many casuals may start from the cheap games and evolve into a new breed of core gamers. The existing core gamers will also diversify. I don't see this as a zero sum game. I actually think that the gamer population has jumped because there are more opportunity to play games now. The core gamer population will increase as a result too.

Some will end up buying dedicated consoles because they like the entertaining experiences, 'specially if the games cultivate positive traits (educational, puzzles, etc.)

Sony should show their PS Suite soon. They should not draw a line between PS Suite and PS games though. They should learn from how NetFlix embraces Blu-ray.

There is no reason why Apple and Google should shun gaming if the market makes business sense for them. There is no reason why Nintendo and Sony should keep themselves away from the crowd. They need to set up a "funnel" to absorb more casuals into their world. Effectively, it means releasing + promoting best-in-class services and games for iOS and Android. The dedicated consoles will have inherent advantages vs cellphones. Tablets may be harder to crack.

 

[Heinrich4]

It means the very definition of gamers have changed. My family is traveling in Europe now. Wife and kid have been fighting over the iPad for Plants vs Zombies. It's a little surreal to see my wife talk about her PvZ achievements.

I reckon many casuals may start from the cheap games and evolve into a new breed of core gamers. The existing core gamers will also diversify. I don't see this as a zero sum game. I actually think that the gamer population has jumped because there are more opportunity to play games now. The core gamer population will increase as a result too.

Some will end up buying dedicated consoles because they like the entertaining experiences, 'specially if the games cultivate positive traits (educational, puzzles, etc.)

Sony should show their PS Suite soon. They should not draw a line between PS Suite and PS games though. They should learn from how NetFlix embraces Blu-ray.

There is no reason why Apple and Google should shun gaming if the market makes business sense for them. There is no reason why Nintendo and Sony should keep themselves away from the crowd. They need to set up a "funnel" to absorb more casuals into their world. Effectively, it means releasing + promoting best-in-class services and games for iOS and Android. The dedicated consoles will have inherent advantages vs cellphones. Tablets may be harder to crack.

Seen from this side is absolutely excellent, but if the casual market receive more attention and investments may have a bad side effect to the core market.

 

[Heinrich4]

Does in no way signal an entrance into competition in the console market. I'm sure they'd like to get their hands on some of those dollars but it will probably be just by trying to market gaming on ipad or something. In the same way I'm sure Google is much more targeted at Facebook and that gaming audience than console gamers. It could certainly affect dollars in the console market as it has become more casual, but again I wouldn't expect to see any serious foray into direct console competition.

May the gods of the core gamers will listen your words,cause if the arms of these two companies to grow as much as MS might see something "XGamerGoogle" (taking X from directx course) or "XApple game console" in this market and that is perhaps not so great for 4 or 5 competitors.

 

[Blazkowicz]

My bet is someone misunderstood what they meant by playing XB games on PC and in reality they just allow you to stream games through LAN to your screen and use PC controllers to play.

what I understood is that the xbox 720 will run windows 8. a pretty real version of the thing, even if that has to run on Power PC. of course probably not with the command line, classic desktop and ability to run arbitrary software.
the tiles interface with gaming and media content is a possibility.


here the "windows 8 will run xbox games" comment is technically correct but misguided.
that's a big developer appeal, you would hit tablet, PC and console on a single OS.

 

[patsu]

Seen from this side is absolutely excellent, but if the casual market receive more attention and investments may have a bad side effect to the core market.

They will both receive more attention. It's natural to see a huge surge in interest for so-called casual games right now, but core gamers are looking for new experiences too.

And companies will differentiate, plus tech will improve to lower the cost of game development. There are already companies focusing on core gamers in social gaming.

 

[rpg.314]

They're indeed schizophrenic a bit on their aims, but the latest is that you can actually play XB360 games on Windows 8 machines

I call BS on that one.

 

[Heinrich4]

The posts by this user in gaf seemed cohesive.

Is that possible?

MS - IBM CPU (powerpc A2?) + AMD GPU
Sony - APU AMD Fusion Krishna or even Trinity - Cpu Bulldozer (+ GPU southern island?)


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29261709&postcount=284

More answers here(ms guy?):

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29286192&postcount=303


Asked to BboyDubC and jeff_rigby Answer:

" Originally Posted by StevieP:

Obviously I know what the difference between a CPU and APU is. All I'm inferring is that the CPU you're working on is going into the rumoured Bulldozer-based APU that's being discussed in the original rumour. All three manufacturers are likely to have AMD GPUs.

I'll put it together in a Columbo-like (RIP) fashion for you:

1) You work at AMD (confirmed by detective GAF)
2) You said you're working on a CPU for one of the next gen consoles
3) Nintendo is using an IBM CPU (rules them out) with an AMD GPU
4) Microsoft is *rumoured* to be using an IBM CPU with an AMD GPU
5) Sony is *rumoured* to be flip-flopping between another IBM CPU and an AMD CPU, according to HardOCP's sources.
6) IF Sony decides to use your AMD design, they'd be getting an AMD CPU and an AMD GPU.
7) In this case, it would make more sense from a power-consumption perspective and cost perspective to get an APU package - also discussed in the HardOCP rumour source.
8) Trinity is the "performance" segment APU on the 2012 AMD roadmap. It is, much as with this rumour, based on a Bulldozer CPU and a midrange GPU in a neat package.

I am simply inferring that from almost every conceivable angle, if the 2012 PS4 has your CPU in it, it will be on some kind of APU package similar to or based on Trinity. This based on an AMD CPU and AMD GPU being in the PS4, based on HardOCP's sources. Your NDA may not let you correct me if I'm wrong (or right).

-> Asked "Ms guy"(?) jeff_rigby ..

This guy works for AMD.

Trinity is medium-end. For a console, it makes a lot of sense. High end GPUs won't be going into console form next gen.

"Next gen" has nothing to do with hardware power. It never has. It just means the next generation of consoles."


Answer:
Your logic is impeccable but something about this does not feel right. We have a Software company who's products are for the most part based on X86 staying with a PPU and a Hardware & Media company who co-developed a game and multi-media processor based on a PPU going with a X86 processor. ?? I'm guessing the AMD processor and GPU will be @ 28nm.

"Next gen" has nothing to do with hardware power". Next Gen is in part about the power but it must have features that define it as a next generation. In the past it was because of a total hardware change made necessary by advances in technology for a next generation 10X increase in performance requiring a change in processor & GPU; that's not totally necessary this generation. This generation we are probably looking at 2-4 times faster at best and there is no real need that I can see to totally break with compatibility with the previous generation; GPU yes but CPU no. There is only economics that might be in play here for the choice of CPU.

For the consumer (me) a game machine that supports 1080P and a game machine that supports 1080P better is not enough to define a next generation."


My last comments-> And here that I was dreaming about a PS4 with powerpc A2 with 8 cores at 3.2GHz +PowerVR Rogue MP32 GPU 400/600MHz with 64MB eDRAM with 10 * power cpu and gpu ps3 at least ...

(omg! wheres is David Baumann ...)

 

[Svensk Viking]

Sry if this has been asked before, but if 1080p is the standard next-gen, is there anything extra that can be done for the folks stuck with a HDTV only supporting 720p?
Would it for example be bothersome for the developers to have some better AA when a game is played in 720p instead of 1080p?

 

[hoho]

"1080p standard" is about as standard as 720p with 2xAA was this gen -> every dev will be doing tricks to lower resolution/AA to get more processing time to make those remaning pixels look better. Nothing stops them from doing it on next gen as well.

Though if they do target 1080p then I don't think you'd get much better stuff at 720p than perhaps a little bit better AA.

 

[homerdog]

Most likely the game would render at 1080p and downscale to 720p. So you would be getting some SSAA.

 

[Rangers]

"1080p standard" is about as standard as 720p with 2xAA was this gen -> every dev will be doing tricks to lower resolution/AA to get more processing time to make those remaning pixels look better. Nothing stops them from doing it on next gen as well.

Though if they do target 1080p then I don't think you'd get much better stuff at 720p than perhaps a little bit better AA.

Well, if it goes like this gen, we would see "1800X900" and such. Something below the target res but not too far. But still that's way better than 720P.

I tend to wonder if wholesale cheating wont lead to a retreat all the way back to 720P next gen, though.

You have to ask which looks better, more force at 720P or less force at 1080P. Really dont know.

This gen the answer (I suppose somewhat mandated) was less force at 720P than 480P, but next gen the difference may not be so clear cut between 720 and 1080 though, since 720 is already a much better starting point.

If I had to wildly guess I'd still think (at least near) 1080P will win out. It's actually a lesser pixel multiple jump than last time, and the fact of playing at our displays crisp native resolution finally is very enticing.

 

[pjbliverpool]

There's gonna be so much wasted power in PC's this next generation if the resolution gap is already closed. Add to that the expectation that consoles may not be as cutting edge this time as they once where and I wonder what will happen with that extra power. Will we see more effort put into improving the PC side graphics or will we see a slow down in PC graphics progression since it won't be needed? The second would be bad for the next, next gen which in part rely on that progress.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Article with Crytek and Epic:
New Xbox & PlayStation 4: What to Expect

"It's going to depend a lot on when Sony and Microsoft decide is the right moment to announce and launch things," Crytek UK principal programmer Pete Hall tells Eurogamer, "but it does feel at the moment that the hardware we get in next generation consoles will be about the sort of level that DX11 is at - that's where it currently looks like it's going."

"It is already possible on PCs today albeit very high end ones," he tells Eurogamer. "Broadly-speaking tomorrow's console is today's high end PC, whose level of technology eventually trickles down to affordable PCs, set-top boxes and mobile devices as well. So it makes sense that this is the kind of thing the next generation of consoles could power. It is just a question of timing."