Post Xbox One Two Scorpio, what should Sony do next? *spawn* (oh, and Nintendo?)

[Jay]

hopefully a reasonably small upclock would still be smaller and quieter, and cheaper.
so these peed off xb1 owners, what do you think they would do, go ps4, pc? Actually serious question.
before this gen social media etc wasn't as relevant, DF was for the hardest of the hardcore, none of that is still the case.
if they was going to upgrade to slim anyway, gives them more reason to, if they wasn't then nothing lost.

you say that "primary buying decisions aren't the numbers, but value, momentum, library" the main thing that MS doesn't have is momentum, and being seen as underpowered for the price. They can resolve at least one of those and maybe even gain some momentum.
there's a lot of new customers that still talk about power, and if it gives a better bc, and general gaming experience why not.
obviously I'm saying that if it can be done "on the cheap and quiet"

 

[Jay]

its basically the argument that people give against a 1.5, guess I just don't agree with it.
don't take out Kinnect, will annoy user base who had to pay for it.
too soon for price cut, people who already/just bought it will be peed off.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

hopefully a reasonably small upclock would still be smaller and quieter, and cheaper.
so these peed off xb1 owners, what do you think they would do, go ps4, pc? Actually serious question.

Nothing. But it's a loss to MS's goodwill with no tangible gains AFAICS.

you say that "primary buying decisions aren't the numbers, but value, momentum, library" the main thing that MS doesn't have is momentum, and being seen as underpowered for the price. They can resolve at least one of those and maybe even gain some momentum.

But I don't think it'll gain any more momentum. Priced the same as a PS4, offering the same power as a PS4, XBSlim won't be competing in any positive way to shift the balance of interest. That is, XB1 won't become desirable above and beyond a PS4 to the mainstream. And that's if MS radically overclock the XB1 to take it up to 1.8 TF. If they can't manage that, they'll still be lower power, lacking the momentum, offering nothing in particular, and yet peeing off their user base.

If MS just go slim, they can sell to the XB fans waiting on a lower price and XB1 iwners upgrading. If they go Slim+ with more power, they'll sell to XB fans waiting on a lower price and XB1 upgraders and pee off their current owners.

That's different to a premium 1.5 model released alongside the low priced base model. The entry level model is the same experience for your existing customers and so nothing changes for them. If MS went XB1.5 with new hardware and significant power increase and a price premium ($400, XB1slim sold at $200), I'd have no argument.

 

[function]

its basically the argument that people give against a 1.5, guess I just don't agree with it.
don't take out Kinnect, will annoy user base who had to pay for it.
too soon for price cut, people who already/just bought it will be peed off.

There's always a cost to making a move, and frequently a cost to not making a move. You have to try and balance these things.

In the case of a minor uptick for X1, it'd still be below PS4 unless you pushed the clocks into the stratosphere, and at the same time it'd be more work for developers and would lose some goodwill (and MS can't exactly afford to burn that at the moment). Would also draw attention to the fact that you were behind PS4, and now you're still behind PS4 (realistically), and you will be even further behind once Neo drops. [And you you were to really push GPU clocks significantly higher you'd need to re-engineer the memory to support DDR4]

At the very least XTwo needs to be beyond PS4 and closer to Neo than X1 was to PS4 in order to gain more than you'd lose, IMO.

 

[Jay]

whether it's possible or not, I don't know but I would want the slim to be priced around what it would without the upclock, if clock alone can't do it 2 more cu's also lol
I agree there's always a balance/cost, but going smaller node I think rightly/wrongly that it could be made cheaper than current box, not much more than a bog standard slim model. Beefed up slim would still need to be cheaper than ps4/slim.

the funny thing is, what you say shifty about 1.5, is what i think, but I hear people saying that they think it'll be a major slap in face of current owners. I just don't subscribe to that, but I just don't see it for a beefed up slim also.
interesting hearing people views so far.

function: I assume that they will be making a move anyway, with a slim. So use this opportunity for an overall refresh

 

[iroboto]

I think I worked out XBO needing to get to 1200Mhz on the GPU side of things to hit 1.8TF. It'll still be behind on ROPs but man will that Esram have bandwidth at that speed LOL. That's a pretty high over clock.

It's very unlikely but I want to see it happen, I mean, think of the Internet discussion!!!

Consider if you were MS and you were down on juice 3 years ago. You set a clock rate you know won't cause your unit to burn ever and release the console. But you also have 50 units at testing facilities clocked all at different and higher speeds running stress tests all this time since 2013 not knowing if the silicon could take it long term. Could it be possible that there are stable higher clocks that didn't burn after 3 years of testing? Hur hur hur.

I think Shifty is right that there is very little value to gamers in incremental improvement - XBO still sells. People are happy with it. A more power XBO might actually get more 360 owners to buy it. But new purchasers need to choose between a Neo and a XBOS since we are unsure if there is a XBO2.


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[Egmon83]

Is it possible that the Xbox Two (not 1.5) would only match/exceed PS4.5 a little bit?
Because then they'd best save it up for a real generational increase

 

[turkey]

Is it possible that the Xbox Two (not 1.5) would only match/exceed PS4.5 a little bit?
Because then they'd best save it up for a real generational increase

A Microsoft generation may not only be related to the game reservation

What will the hardware be
minus
What % of the hardware will be reserved
equals
What will games have dedicated to them

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How's that different to PS? PS3 had way more reserved resources than XB360, and PS4 has just as much reserved as XB1.

 

[Jay]

I think I worked out XBO needing to get to 1200Mhz on the GPU side of things to hit 1.8TF. It'll still be behind on ROPs but man will that Esram have bandwidth at that speed LOL. That's a pretty high over clock.

It's very unlikely but I want to see it happen, I mean, think of the Internet discussion!!!

current owners would really hate me if I had my way, I'd also make it upgradable. I wouldn't wait for next machine.

devs and gamers has to get used to multiple powered and upgradable sku's on the market at the same time in my world.
a beefed up xb1 would be the least of their anger haha

 

[iroboto]

current owners would really hate me if I had my way, I'd also make it upgradable. I wouldn't wait for next machine.

devs and gamers has to get used to multiple powered and upgradable sku's on the market at the same time in my world.
a beefed up xb1 would be the least of their anger haha

If the owners are like me they probably don't care unless it costs them money to continue their habit.

And it comes down to that. You think of Snoop Dog as being your main clientele. He don't care about anything written on b3d. He just wants Xbox live up and running. He wants games to just work. He doesn't have time to fawn over graphics, he just appreciates what he sees.

If the game is good you're just gonna play it. I had a great time with my buddies last night until 2am playing halo and rocket league. I mean good fun is just that, good competition and laughter between friends with trash talk sprinkled in to keep things going. Hard to find good fun in pixels, I keep looking but I don't see it.

 

[fehu]

the funny thing is, what you say shifty about 1.5, is what i think, but I hear people saying that they think it'll be a major slap in face of current owners. I just don't subscribe to that, but I just don't see it for a beefed up slim also.
interesting hearing people views so far.

I was going to buy an used One because they are raining at up to 160€, sometimes even with a second controller, while in stores the plain 500GB is 349/399.
The slim version is expected and don't care too much, but if they are going with the Xbox OK (tm) it's another story.
The result is that now I will wait until e3 to decide.

 

[Egmon83]

I was going to buy an used One because they are raining at up to 160€, sometimes even with a second controller, while in stores the plain 500GB is 349/399.
The slim version is expected and don't care too much, but if they are going with the Xbox OK (tm) it's another story.
The result is that now I will wait until e3 to decide.

I feel the same way; but I'll bite at 100 euro used with Quantum Break, which should take at least another year.. If they have a better model at E3 however... then the prices will come down even faster
Who ever said that competition was bad? Gimme the 100 euro Xbox One!!!

 

[Jay]

If the owners are like me they probably don't care unless it costs them money to continue their habit.

And it comes down to that. You think of Snoop Dog as being your main clientele. He don't care about anything written on b3d. He just wants Xbox live up and running. He wants games to just work. He doesn't have time to fawn over graphics, he just appreciates what he sees.

If the game is good you're just gonna play it. I had a great time with my buddies last night until 2am playing halo and rocket league. I mean good fun is just that, good competition and laughter between friends with trash talk sprinkled in to keep things going. Hard to find good fun in pixels, I keep looking but I don't see it.

I may agree with your sentiments, (and truth is I don't think the average gamer would be outraged either way), but it does keep getting mentioned about upsetting them.
I think if your happy your happy, as long as something isn't being taken away from you.

 

[nggamer]

I picked up an Elite last fall, the extra cost for the controller and hybrid drive were worth it to me, but there was no outcry that everyone else got screwed who bought an Xbox before! Why is it, that if a premium model plays games slightly better, some people think that’s screwing everyone else that bought a console? Seems like an artificial line and an outdated thought process for this day and age.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The argument here is that the cheaper model will play games better. XB1 gets a slim, sells for less than a large XB1 sold the week before, yet plays games better. People get a bit miffed when a slim comes out after they just bought the fat, or there's a price drop just when they bought their console, but these are known quantities and everyone gets over it. Introducing a fundamentally better experience is something new. Charging more for that makes sense in the general course of commerce and is fairly accepted, although it's still a concept generating waves in the console space due to its peculiar history, but charging the same/less and giving a better experience is going to seriously piss off recent purchasers.

Genuinely, if you bought an XB1 at $300 and two weeks later, there was a new slim model for $250 that run notable faster, wouldn't you be properly irked at missing out? If not, you're a very accepting fellow!

Although there is another line of discussion focussed on the Neo about gamers feeling left out, whcih might be what you're referring to and to which I agree, but that's for the other thread.

 

[turkey]

How's that different to PS? PS3 had way more reserved resources than XB360, and PS4 has just as much reserved as XB1.

This is true , my thinking was with the split OS and Microsoft possibly wanting to bring Xbox and Windows closer we may see more reserved for the OS and applications, more than just a bit of memory and a single CPU core. The whole hypervisor setup is designed around this so I would assume they expect to take it firther and that may mean the high level figures are not exclusively for games.

Neo being a PS4 just aiming for higher resolution may well have the same reserves as the base PS4, or even fewer reserves as it seems it's getting more memory for games.

 

[Jay]

.Genuinely, if you bought an XB1 at $300 and two weeks later, there was a new slim model for $250 that run notable faster, wouldn't you be properly irked at missing out? If not, you're a very accepting fellow!

think I may be an outlier, maybe because I came to terms a long time ago that things get cheaper and better nearly as soon as I buy it, especially electrical items.
I then either choose to update, or buy it. I usually stick and enjoy what I bought as good enough otherwise I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.
I just see it as opportunity to get something better if I want/need it.
same way if slim came with 4k streaming, same content just better.
if I want 4k streaming in console at least then id have a cheap option and not have to go 1.5 for it. For me media/streaming and gaming holds same weight, and wouldn't be bothered by either, so yea definitely an outlier and your probably right I'm not the norm maybe.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

think I may be an outlier, maybe because I came to terms a long time ago that things get cheaper and better nearly as soon as I buy it...

I think it's universally one or the other. I don't immediately recall any signficantly cheaper and better products, save marginal improvements like integrated network on PS2 slim or some output update.

 

[mpg1]

I bought an original Xbox 360 in 2007 then upgraded to the S model in 2011. Easily worth it considering the price had dropped and a combination of smaller form factor + quieter + much larger hard drive + hdmi + built in Wifi.