Where Microsofts Game Studios stand and what do they need to do next?

[Scott_Arm]

... If people want to compare libraries, a better way needs to be found to do that.

I think everyone understands what the problem is, but I'll do my best to illustrate it here:

Total exclusives in the past four years
MS - 11 (12 if you assume Halo Infinite is coming out)
Sony - 14 (excluding two timed exclusives and Last of Us 2 because it's indefinitely delayed by covid 19)

New Franchises in the past four years
MS - 3 (4 if you count Gears Tactics)
Sony - 7 (9 if you count two timed exclusives that launched on Playstation and were announced on Xbox the following year)

2017
MS - Cuphead 2017 $20
MS - Forza Motorsport 7
MS - Halo Wars 2
S - Horizon Zero Dawn
S - Nier Automata (timed) Edit: Didn't know this came out on Xbox later
S - Nioh
S - Hellblade (timed)
S - Gran Turismo Sport
S - MLB The Show 2017

2018
MS - Forza Horizon 4
MS - State of Decay 2
MS - Sea of Thieves
S -God of War
S -Marvel's Spiderman
S -Detroit Become Human
S - MLB The Show 2018

2019
MS -Crackdown 3
MS -Gears 5
S - Death Stranding
S - Days Gone
S - MLB The Show 2019

2020 (all known releases)
MS - Ori and the will of the wisp
MS - Gears Tactics
MS - Bleeding Edge
MS - Halo Infinite (maybe)
S - Ghosts of Tsushima (June)
S - Nioh 2
S - Last of Us 2 (delayed indefinitely)
S - MLB The Show 2020


Edit: I didn't include remasters in this, but Sony would probably have an edge there too. Included MLB The Show for Sony since it's an exclusive, and it's not much different than regular Forza releases.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

no chance in hell it does and I don't even like Halo all that much. But anyone who is objective would know this answer.

Sorry, are you saying I'm not objective because I asked the question?

 

[AzBat]

I think everyone understands what the problem is, but I'll do my best to illustrate it here:

Total exclusives in the past four years
MS - 9 (10 if you assume Halo Infinite is coming out)
Sony - 10 (excluding two timed exclusives and Last of Us 2 because it's indefinitely delayed by covid 19)

New Franchises in the past four years
MS - 1 (2 if you count Gears Tactics
Sony - 7 (9 if you count two timed exclusives that launched on Playstation and were announced on Xbox the following year)

2017
MS - Cuphead 2017
MS - Forza Motorsport 7
MS - Halo Wars 2
S - Horizon Zero Dawn
S -Nier Automata (timed) Edit: Didn't know this came out on Xbox later
S -Nioh
S -Hellblade (timed)
S -Gran Turismo Sport

2018
MS -Forza Horizon 4
MS -State of Decay 2
S -God of War
S -Marvel's Spiderman
S -Detroit Become Human

2019
MS -Crackdown 3
MS -Gears 5
S -Death Stranding
S -Days Gone

2020 (all known releases)
MS - Ori and the will of the wisp
MS - Gears Tactics
MS - Halo Infinite (maybe)
S - Ghosts of Tsushima (June)
S - Nioh 2
S - Last of Us 2 (delayed indefinitely)


Edit: I didn't include remasters in this, but Sony would probably have an edge there too.

2018
MS - Sea of Thieves

2020
MS - Bleeding Edge

Tommy McClain

 

[iroboto]

Sorry, are you saying I'm not objective because I asked the question?

no i'm making a general comment on a new Game Franchise, vs one that has been around since OG Xbox. That despite any amount of kudos or the last greatest game, it's nearly impossible for a new game to be given more props than one with a history as long as Halo has. Succinctly, For someone to agree with the statement that Bloodborne is a bigger franchise than Halo, they couldn't be objective, the data just doesn't support that.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Succinctly, For someone to agree with the statement that Bloodborne is a bigger franchise than Halo

I haven't said it's bigger (which in itself is a relative terms describing a quality, the quality here not defined - bigger in terms of dollar profits, unit sales, Google hits in the last 12 months, hours played...?). Maybe your interpretation of 'kudos' is different to what I meant by it? I mean current trending fashionability or ability to generate social-media discussion.

Fashions come and go and I'm wondering if the new kid on the block is better for raising a brand's awareness. Sonic is bigger and has more history then anything HZD, but HZD generates more contemporary gamer interest. Heck, PacMan is an uber-iconic legends but I doubt a PacMan exclusive would push a console. Not even a PacMan battle-royale.

 

[cheapchips]

I don't have a problem with Gears and Halo continuing as long as it's not at the expense of getting new game series. If my choice is get another Gears and another Halo, or get two new franchises, I'm going to pick the new franchises.

If you look at their studios, you have Ninja Theory, Playground, Rare, The Coalition, The Initiative and maybe Turn10 that are equipped to start producing new big-budget franchises. I might include Obsidian in there. I know there have been rumours of Playground making a new Fable. They should have the capacity to release new franchises, unless they just tie them up with continuing the series they've been committed to for years.

343 - Halo
Compulsion Games - small studio
Double Fine - small studio
inXile - Wasteland, small studio
Mojang - Minecraft
Ninja Theory - Hellblade 2
Obsidian - The Outer Worlds, Grounded
Playground Games - Forza Horizon
Rare - Sea of Thieves
The Coalition - Gears
The Initiative - something big budget
Turn 10 - Forza
Undead Labs - State of Decay, small studio
World's Edge - Age of Empires

You missed Everwild coming from Rare. They're only medium sized, so not sure they'll have much beyond that and ongoing Sea of Thieves.

For NT's part, they've only expressed an interest in more experimental / smaller experiences. They have 40 people out of 120 on Hell Blade 2.

 

[Scott_Arm]

2018
MS - Sea of Thieves

2020
MS - Bleeding Edge

Tommy McClain

Updated

 

[iroboto]

I haven't said it's bigger (which in itself is a relative terms describing a quality, the quality here not defined - bigger in terms of dollar profits, unit sales, Google hits in the last 12 months, hours played...?). Maybe your interpretation of 'kudos' is different to what I meant by it? I mean current trending fashionability or ability to generate social-media discussion.

Fashions come and go and I'm wondering if the new kid on the block is better for raising a brand's awareness. Sonic is bigger and has more history then anything HZD, but HZD generates more contemporary gamer interest. Heck, PacMan is an uber-iconic legends but I doubt a PacMan exclusive would push a console. Not even a PacMan battle-royale.

yea those are big names, lol. Pac Man especially, but fairly dead now.
I get what you where you are going with that. In that sense, I do still believe that Halo is further ahead of most franchises despite it's failings. I'm not that invested into Halo, I grew up playing majority PC FPS games, but Halo and the Master Chief are sacred icons and still do exceptionally well on social media and general discussions. For instance Halo MCC on Steam which is incomplete sold 2 Million units.

To whether Halo could sell or push a console, I still think Halo can. But it's release on PC sort of mitigates that.
This guy here who is Playstation for life, and XBox hater fan was challenged to watch all Halo cutscenes and trailers from beginning to end without having played any of it and in the end he was ready to buy an xbox for infinite and was pumped to see the master chief. So I do think there is still a love for Halo despite the fact that things haven't been perfect. Some people just love the lore. Some people just love Captain America being seen in new light. I guess in many ways he's a marvel comic hero, just needs to be seen in a light that everyone will enjoy.

I'm sure Halo Infinite will top twitch and mixer when it releases. I have no doubts it's going to #1, especially it being playable on 3 platforms now.

 

[Scott_Arm]

... Not even a PacMan battle-royale.

Tell me more, I'm listening ...

 

[iroboto]

Tell me more, I'm listening ...

lol we need to make this for mobile, we'd kill it.

 

[AzBat]

You missed Everwild coming from Rare. They're only medium sized, so not sure they'll have much beyond that and ongoing Sea of Thieves.

No release date on Everwild. Their singular trailer hasn't even been confirmed to have any actual gameplay. 2021 is the earliest it would show up, but I'm expecting 2022.

Tommy McClain

 

[PSman1700]

At this point MS needs to go hell and back to create some God tier titles that would make people remember the Xbox brand.

Oh trust me, no-one is going to forget Xbox anytime soon, not even in the current One state.

hile they're good game in their own right but far from the legendary status

One can also note that those 'legendaries' are only 3rd person titles, MS is giving themselfs into that now too, they aquired many studios, high to low, and are going full force on games again. MS made multile misstakes with the One, first Kinect, 100 dollars more expensive, focus on TVTVTV, and 100 dollars more expensive then the competition.

They did try new things this gen such as Ryse, Quantum Break, Sea of Thieves and Forza Horizon but most of them all flopped hard

They didn't flop hard at all. That's a very wrong conception. What about order 1886, knack and days gone then?

As for their upcoming next gen titles HellBlade 2 does sound interesting

It doesn't only sound intresting, it also looks amazeballs, so far that some even think it wont be possible. It's one of MS's showcases of what direction their going.

Halo Infinite doesn't look too special currently, it's mostly upgraded graphics and perhaps open world this time? Even the graphics look crossgen.

Wouldn't say that yet, we have seen too little, DF thought there could be ray tracing going on. Cross gen doesnt have to be doom and gloom, seeing how everything seems to be running on the switch aswell, even Eternal, which is one of the best looking and running games this generation. The geometry in that game is on another level.

I need their equivalent of

HB2 is one already, we have no idea yet, but there could be more on the way. How the games landscape looks between 2020 and 2027 no one knows. Things can go anywhere, see from 6th gen to 7th gen.

This is mostly indicative of a game with a massive budget.

RDR2, Rockstar, the definition of high budget game and studio. No idea how big they are, but they must be one of the biggest, if not the biggest. A potentional GTA6 on next gen as baseline would be what defines next generation.

If it isn't Sony it's a failure and if it's Sony it's 'huge success'.

Brand loyality is a thing, still

Perhaps next gen microsoft returns to their roots

Yes they will need to offer like hellblade 2, but more of that. Single player AAA games are still a thing.

This guy here who is Playstation for life, and XBox hater fan was challenged to watch all Halo cutscenes and trailers from beginning to end without having played any of it and in the end he was ready to buy an xbox

That is very hard to believe, a die hard PS fan won't ever even consider it. Not the ones i know atleast

All in all yes MS needs to improve on the 3rd person AAA side of things, cause theres where the competition has an advantage currently.

 

[Devious]

Halo Infinite doesn't look too special currently, it's mostly upgraded graphics and perhaps open world this time? Even the graphics look crossgen.

Is your definition of "legendary status" more about graphics? Cause I don't see how you can write off Halo Infinite when we've barely seen how the game will play or how it's written.

 

[PSman1700]

Cause I don't see how you can write off Halo Infinite when we've barely seen how the game will play or how it's written.

Yea, was thinking that, kinda hard to judge before it's even out, we havent even seen any gameplay, very little information. I know budgets don't say everything, but

https://www.gfinityesports.com/arti...ured-to-be-the-most-expensive-video-game-ever

 

[eastmen]

Oh I don't disagree. They could use new IPs, and I know that they are working towards that. It will be a while until these studios get to the size of the Sony ones.

microsoft bought a bunch of game studios with some games in different levels of completion. They will have a lot of new IPs over the course of this generation from those companies. They also built out a few more studios that will develop new and spin off titles and they are still in purchasing phase expect another 3-5 studios being bought over the next 18months

 

[cheapchips]

Yea, was thinking that, kinda hard to judge before it's even out, we havent even seen any gameplay, very little information. I know budgets don't say everything, but

https://www.gfinityesports.com/arti...ured-to-be-the-most-expensive-video-game-ever

343 have around 400-500 employees. Over $200000 per year per employee seems a little high?

 

[PSman1700]

Theres probably more to it then that calculation though

 

[cheapchips]

Theres probably more to it then that calculation though

Game production costs are mostly just people. Sofeware/Desktops/Office rental/Health Insurance etc can pretty much be loaded on average salary. They are all insignificant cost compared to the base salary.

You're left with server farm/cloud, outsourced mocap and actors? There's only so much you can spend on those. It still comes back to paying the team as the biggest cost.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Game production costs are mostly just people. Sofeware/Desktops/Office rental/Health Insurance etc can pretty much be loaded on average salary. They are all insignificant cost compared to the base salary.

You're left with server farm/cloud, outsourced mocap and actors? There's only so much you can spend on those. It still comes back to paying the team as the biggest cost.

It's been covered before but I think the rule of thumb was something like 2x salary to employ a person when you factored in all the extras. You'd have to look it up though; my Google-fu has failed (not that I've tried very hard ). The only thing I'm sure of is the additional costs beyond salary were not insignificant by any stretch.

Okay, $10,000 per person per month.
B3D discussion on game costs : https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/the-cost-of-game-development-where-does-the-money-go-spawn.60447/

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I like the Wikipedia's description of the 'informal' AAA classification.