Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Disappointing. I'm pretty surprised actually. Looks like Sony is lacking content as well.
PlayStation Showcase 2023
- Thread starter Shortbread
- Start date
Well the other way around it is what Insomniac is doing. You create a game that is a decent length , I believe the first spiderman was about 15 hours if you didn't go after collectables. Then you continue to use all those assets over and over again. They are at 3 spiderman games in what 5/6 years ? I think the issue that Insomniac ran into is Spiderman remastered and the MM coming out with the ps5. If SM1/MM were just ps4 games and then SM2 came out looking like it did people would loose their shit about how good it looks. Then you release the remasters of SM1/MM after SM2. Also I'd assume it would have worked better for Sony if the franchise lined up under one console generation.
I feel that sony is trying to create GAAS games because they need things to keep consumers in their ecosystem between their bigger Single player games. The issue with a single player game is its a finite experience. The game comes out and people play it and thats it. Sure it might take some people longer to purchase the game waiting on sales or playing through their back log. However even with the amount of studios sony has it takes a long time to push out these games and increasingly sony is going down the road that many lament MS doing. That is having a few franchises that just continue getting sequels too. Horizon is a 2017 game and already has a sequel and VR game. Spiderman is a 2018 title and is about to have its 3rd entry in 5 years. God of war was rebooted in what 2018 and a sequel in 2022. The more they rely on these franchises the more they will fatigue and the lower the quality they can put in because the turn around is too long. So now they sprinkle in GAAS games and they can push out the release pace of some of these single player games.
I think they are fine. I’m not nitpicking cause, it seems more than ever impossible to wow people. If cyberpunk 2077 overdrive does nothing for you, nothing is going to wow.
I think putting out fun and great games every 2 years like they have at Insomniac is impressive as hell and most teams would not be able to pull it off.
Why would someone buy the PlayStation handheld "Project Q" over for example Logitech G Cloud, unless it's going to be significantly cheaper. For 200-250€ it might sell some, but I fear Sony is going to put a tag >300€ on it
But on the other hand, it's a very low risk project for Sony. It can't have required much r&d as it's basically DualSense controller bolted to a simple wifi capable 8" tablet that can do remote play.
But on the other hand, it's a very low risk project for Sony. It can't have required much r&d as it's basically DualSense controller bolted to a simple wifi capable 8" tablet that can do remote play.
i'd assume the project Q is only for playstation 5 gamers. So if you have a bunch of content locked to ps5 then this would appeal to that type of person. however if this is closer to $400 usd well you are entering steam deck territory and that doesn't have restrictions to being a streaming device. You can also use practically every other streaming service including xcloud on the deck and play a huge and ever growing portion of the steam library natively on the deck.
It seems like a really odd device and I'd have to wager that a lot of peoples home networks aren't going to provide a great experiance with this
Inuhanyou
Veteran
How so? That game looks great especially at 60, although the art style I guess is subjectively better or worse depending on the person. Character models look expressive and detailed, lots of effects and granual detail.
Would be better served by releasing official remoteplay client on nintendo switch, imo
I am with you. I cannot understand disappointment I think it looked fantastic. If this is disappointing then holy shit I was playing garbage games all the time.
My honest thought is how hard would it have been to take a ps4 or ps4 pro SOC and drop it to 5nm and stuff it in this device. That way you could at least play the ps4 library natively and then stream ps5 games from your system.
I got used to that for quite some time. Actually i do not really expect any AAA game announcement catching my interest anymore.
That's really sad. It feels like the Atari video game crash was mild compared to the current situation.
That's surely a problem, but i don't think it's the main cause.
I rather think it's the realism itself which is the cause.
For example, we can no longer make a Super Mario game, because it looks silly if scanned Keanu Reeves jumps 10m high all the time. The realism constrains our options in game design much more than it adds.
But at the same time we did not progress towards a more realistic set of interactions in our games. All you can do in a game is still just looking around, moving around, shoot at things and beat some guys up.
We have some scripted, bolt on extensions, e.g. branching dialogue. But this does not count, since it's static content with predefined outcome. It's not implemented in the games world simulation, but some abstract features on top.
If we look at it from that angle, we realize that we did not achieve any progress after Super Mario. And Super Mario even has a much richer interaction model than any current modern game.
So i think what we really need to do is to come up with new things the player can do in our game. Just don't ask me what this could be.
No. Don't count on it. I'm on the wrong track with working on realtime GI, and i know it. It will look better, enable some new level of dynamics, but it does not help with the critical issue mentioned above.
Our problem is not that gfx progress slows down. It's that we're completely stuck with game design for more than a decade.
But i agree with your point about reaching content production limits, and we have quite some options: Procedural generation, real world scans, eventually even make some games which are not open world, etc.
AI content might help as well, but it looks like it won't help us against the bad reputation of game dev. That's interesting. Like with TAA or raytracing, we are at the point where new technology is no longer agreed and welcomed by everybody.
Some like it, others hate it. It's not like in the 90's anymore, where everybody agreed that 256 colors is better than 16.
Seemingly, our improvements are so small, many people notice the downsides more than the upsides, and focus more on doubt and disagreement than excitement about progress.
So we have a lot of disagreement and disappointment. It's about game design, tech, social / political message, basically everything.
My conclusion is obvious: Games are too much oriented on mainstream. If everybody tries to make a game that everybody else should like, obviously we all end up making the same game, and things become predictable and boring.
If we can solve content creation to reduce costs with automation, we can instead target the interests of specific subgroups. Give each group some games they like, and all will be good again.
Now i would like to list indie games as a working example for this, but sadly i don't think they do so much better than AAA.
Which brings me back to the first point: We need new ideas in game design. We need new answers to the question: 'What can you do in the game?'
Probably it's not enough to wait for Epic or Autodesk to give you better tools.
It's also not enough to take some Houdini course to be ready for 'cost saving procedural generation'.
No. We need to work on new tools ourselves. That's the only way to get the variety we need so badly.
Now that everybody just uses UE and calls it a day, devs could at least innovate on custom tools. (Yeah, i know the already do. But it looks we're still in the stoneage of procedural generation.)
Inuhanyou
Veteran
I was only mildly disappointed at the showcase but the further from it the more concerned I am about certain things. Jim Ryan seems to think they did a good job not showing any first party games, cgi trailers and content of games we already knew about. When people are used to showcases being about stuff that is coming in the mid to long term to get people excited for what playstation itself is offering.
On top of this, in the rush to jump to liveservice, I feel like Jim needs to be reminded that a strong focus on first party narrative based affairs are what the core playstation ecosystem likes. Having a few multiplayer service based titles like bungies games are fine.
But people will be able to sniff out you trying to force a lot of these things out to market in favor of more single player games The fact that the only first party content for the future was GAAS content that already was not taken well judging by YouTube likes to dislikes ratio on those games reveal trailers should ring some alarm bells about how careful they have to be regarding how they prioritize content and what they show to the public and when
On top of this, in the rush to jump to liveservice, I feel like Jim needs to be reminded that a strong focus on first party narrative based affairs are what the core playstation ecosystem likes. Having a few multiplayer service based titles like bungies games are fine.
But people will be able to sniff out you trying to force a lot of these things out to market in favor of more single player games The fact that the only first party content for the future was GAAS content that already was not taken well judging by YouTube likes to dislikes ratio on those games reveal trailers should ring some alarm bells about how careful they have to be regarding how they prioritize content and what they show to the public and when
There is still Summer game Fest on june 8th. Sony is still on the list. may be be saving some games there I believe.
Also big games like FFXVI not out yet. If they have shown FFVII Rebirth maybe some people would have thought " I ll pass on XVI and wait for rebirth " seing a trailer maybe.
Maybe Acti/ MS deals still on too. Or they re waiting for Microsoft Xbox showcase on june 11th to see hat they will show and then probably will make a state of play or a second show this summer after all the " show " events to get the full focus.
Also big games like FFXVI not out yet. If they have shown FFVII Rebirth maybe some people would have thought " I ll pass on XVI and wait for rebirth " seing a trailer maybe.
Maybe Acti/ MS deals still on too. Or they re waiting for Microsoft Xbox showcase on june 11th to see hat they will show and then probably will make a state of play or a second show this summer after all the " show " events to get the full focus.
cheapchips
Veteran
There's defiantly a combination of things that have me go meh, to the trailer at least. The game might still turn out to be pretty and fun. Remain open minded on that.
The cutscene characters did look quite nice. That passes me right by as a measure of how the game looks though. It doesn't help that they're mostly inhabiting uninteresting spaces while lore boring the pants off me.
It absolutely might be an art/level layout thing or the quick cuts in the trailer, rather than technology. As it stands, the play space and backdrops look bland. There's glimpses of things that might be more interesting. Maybe they're saving incredible fantasy backdrops for an actual playthrough.
Think I mentioned in the UE5 thread, whether for tech or gameplay reasons, the lack of interactive spell lighting is a shame. Spells really lighting up areas and casting big shadows would be a visual showstopper.
They do sell well, and they are easily still some of the best IPs in their respective category. But a system seller grows the number of new players to the platform.
So far it’s been maintenance or even some shedding since last Gen and significant shedding since 360. If they can grow their
Market share by % that means their titles are resonating with more players to want to enter the ecosystem.
This is their opportunity to turn some of that around, Sony didn’t really bring a show to capture even more market share, they did a maintenance cycle it feels like. I don’t think SM2 is going to garner a lot of new fans, but existing fans will be delighted for it.
Way too much emphasis on GaaS I think from Sony. I dont expect it to work in favor of the PS brand. GaaS games are decoupled from platform brands hence why all successful examples are either on PC or every platform imaginable to succeed. People are waiting for the next best experience on their console. GaaS are a bigger gamble. Very few GaaS games succeed. If Sony falls into the trap of promoting too much GaaS on PS, it is going to be similar to how Nintendo alienated its fanbase with a product that was designed as an outdated PS360 console with an extra screen (WiiU), and how MS alienated its fanbase by promoting a generic TV entertainment device with One.
Its a big mistake to try to convert your fanbase or ignore what your fanbase or what your future consumers are looking for. That never works. A brand is built around a specific experience that attracted your consumers and have faith on you delivering on that experience. The only time that works, is when the said experience you originally built your brand on loses appeal as a result of market shifts, so the company has to convert to what the market can potentially respond to.
Sony and MS have to focus on their major offerings that attract their consumers in the first place, and treat GaaS as complimentary offerings. Probably even have separate events or at least make sure that you arent spreading too much your focus that you cant deliver where your fanbase needs you. Sea of Thieves didnt take the world by the storm and MS was even mocked for it despite having a healthy (AFAIK) community. The last thing me and my friends are expecting from PS and XBOX are GaaS games and I am sure this counts for a very very substantial portion of the console market if not the biggest.
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GaaS are important because that is what players are playing. Let’s be real, they represent the bulk of profits and platform engagement for all platforms.
But what I think you’re describing is that platform holders still need to meet the expectations of their hardcore base. Something Xbox hasn’t really done as well these last couple of years, and Sony also now seems be trending in that direction as well.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
People do play GaaS but if you review sales and what has driven revenue over the last ten years outside of the mobile space, with the exception of GTA V, it's not GaaS. It's Skyrim, Minecraft, it's Zelda, It's Mario Kart, it's Pokemon. It's single player experiences or games that are not predicated on ongoing payments. I spent a good week with Grounded but spent zero real money, nor felt the need too.
I'm sure Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony would like the console space to be like the mobile space for this reason but the home console community has resisted.
