Playstation 3: Hardware Info and Price

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

Could that be to component allocating more of its bandwidth towards color accuracy than HDMI does?

It tends to be the difference in the signal type, Analog vs Digital. Analog has more accuracy becase it not limited to 2 preset values. Say on componet red can described as 0.345 intensity, u just wont get it that accurate on HDMI because its digital. But on the HDMI's defence, because it is digital its less prone to Interference and thus resulting in less artifacts on the image. Most people think HDMI's coulur is fine, but i cant stand it so i use component when ever i can.

Its always been the same in the Home cinema scene, LP vinyl still sounds better than SACD's and DVD Audio ( Again it's Analog vs Digital )

Even when we set up a customers system in there house, we always used and Analog sound pressure meter because they are more accurate then Digital one's

 

[London Geezer]

It tends to be the difference in the signal type, Analog vs Digital. Analog has more accuracy becase it not limited to 2 preset values. Say on componet red can described as 0.345 intensity, u just wont get it that accurate on HDMI because its digital. But on the HDMI's defence, because it is digital its less prone to Interference and thus resulting in less artifacts on the image. Most people think HDMI's coulur is fine, but i cant stand it so i use component when ever i can.

Its always been the same in the Home cinema scene, LP vinyl still sounds better than SACD's and DVD Audio ( Again it's Analog vs Digital )

Even when we set up a customers system in there house, we always used and Analog sound pressure meter because they are more accurate then Digital one's

Thanks for a few good laughs!

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

Thanks for a few good laughs!

:| id call lissening to both on £20K+ systems the best way to compare :|

The best way to lissen to SACD and DVD-A is on something like a Sony TA-DA9000ES home cinema amplifier and Sony SCD-XA9000ES SACD player, conected via i-LINK.

 

[Cattle-Dog]

AACS: http://www.aacsla.com/support/AACS_Interim_Adopter_Agreement_060215.pdf

"Exhibit F", point 2.12:

I'm not talking about the ICT or DOT. Refer to the authorized analog outputs and their authorized resolutions (Table A1). "Computer Video Outputs", Component, and Composite @ 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, and 1080i.

 

[Powderkeg]

Thanks for a few good laughs!

What are you laughing at?

In case you didn't know it, the old LP's hit sound frequency ranges that are not present in CD/DVD audio recordings. Both high and low.

If you want the most accurate and most pure sound, you've got to go with analog. CD/DVD filters out too much and compresses the rest.

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

What are you laughing at?

In case you didn't know it, the old LP's hit sound frequency ranges that are not present in CD/DVD audio recordings. Both high and low.

If you want the most accurate and most pure sound, you've got to go with analog. CD/DVD filters out too much and compresses the rest.

Thank you powerderKeg, there is someone here who knows about hi-fi

 

[rabidrabbit]

Cut london-joy some slack guys, he was born in the late 80's and been living all his life in teh digital age.
He has not experienced the joys of anal..og.

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

Cut london-joy some slack guys, he was born in the late 80's and been living all his life in teh digital age.
He has not experienced the joys of anal..og.

So was i, but i still know analog is better than digital

 

[Tars Tarkus]

The best way to lissen to SACD

Has it been stated anywhere by Sony that they will be allowing direct digital output of the SACD? IIRC they forced an analog conversion of the signal before it reached the outputs when they launched SACD a few years ago.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think, in the context of this discussion, it's a matter of practicality and not theoretical maximums. Analogue vinyls have a better theoretical sound, but for most people it was scratchy, poply and hissy. CD reduces maximum frequency response, but elliminates the artefacts that reduced the practical useable sound quality from vinyl.

Asking people to compare on a £20k sound system isn't providing a good argument for which format should be better for general use. Most people don't have £20k to blow on hifi equipment and would rather have a more robust quality in CD or digital versus a better quality but more delicate and expensive analogue source.

Taking that to the TV argument, you get analogue noise in analogue signals that will degrade picture quality. It's all very well saying analogue has a greater range than digital but in parts of that range it'll be subject to deteriorating signal quality that needs strong measures to reduce. There's also the matter of perception. If the range analogue covers beyond digital is a difference imperceptible to the viewer, it makes no difference. !eVo!-X Ant UK also makes an erroneous statement comparing analogue to binary for signal, saying binary only gives two states. The digital representation of colour uses 256 1-bit values, so the actual range in that 0...1 scale is 1/256th. Thus with this statement

Say on componet red can described as 0.345 intensity, u just wont get it that accurate on HDMI because its digital

digital will give you either 0.3516 or 0.3477, a deviation of 0.0066 or 0.0027 in a range of 0 to 1 (less than 1% error worst case).

As for component giving better colour than digital, that shouldn't be affected by the data transmission, analogue or digital. Both are capable of signalling 100%, 50%, 0% red, green and blue, and those colours should appear the same on the TV. If they don't, it's because the TV is processing them differently. You may find that when you use a digital signal it's not as saturated. That's why the users are presented colour controls to adjust the picture

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

Has it been stated anywhere by Sony that they will be allowing direct digital output of the SACD? IIRC they forced an analog conversion of the signal before it reached the outputs when they launched SACD a few years ago.

No, that particular amplifier is a TRUE digital amp, Sony call it S-MASTER. Its one of the few amp on the market that handle EVERYTHING in the digital domain. There are a few amps out that claim to be digiatal but they convert the signal to analog though some stages, thus making them not really digital amp's

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

As for component giving better colour than digital, that shouldn't be affected by the data transmission, analogue or digital. Both are capable of signalling 100%, 50%, 0% red, green and blue, and those colours should appear the same on the TV. If they don't, it's because the TV is processing them differently. You may find that when you use a digital signal it's not as saturated. That's why the users are presented colour controls to adjust the picture

We used i dentical set's for the test set ot the same settings, using a THX reference set-up disk, components just better ( more artifacts, but a nice high end DVD player hardly has any of them anyway )

 

[DemoCoder]

Analog doesn't mean infinite precision. Analog is limited by Shannon Channel Capacity just like everything else. Moreover, analog masters are also filtered and compressed too, because of the physics of vinyl, there is still a finite dynamic range that can be recorded.

LP may be able to encode more ultrasonic frequencies, and it may even be shown that human brain wave activity is influenced by them (even though they are inaudible) but there is no proof that they lead to the conclusion that they sound better. The vast vast majority of people subjected to DBT/ABX tests, even those who claim a "Golden Ear" can't tell the difference between LP and digital. The statistical significant of such differences averaged out over the majority of listeners is a wash. But neophyte listeners can detect noise, hiss, and pops.

Like Wine Critics, the audiophiles go on claiming they can detect things that test after test shows they can't. They'll concoct ludicrous theories for why DBT/ABX tests are failing to show differences, much like scam diviners and psychics concoct reasons for why they can't perform in a real test. And this has alot to do with mental justifications (internalized) by the outlay of vast sums of money to make LPs sound better and the huge amount of dedication to caring for LPs and protecting them from degradation.

This argument will never end because of the subjective nature of it.

 

[JasonLD]

I have been reading lots of Japanese press and saw that Wii has been gathering overwhelmingly positive response, but PS3's reception has been overwhelmingly negative...I am starting to think if Sony made a good decision announcing price on E3...since Nintendo has yet to release any price for Wii.
Also Japanese press is talking about possibility that PS3's high price announcement is to avoid possible MS's price reduction in response to PS3's price announcement...it might be a wild speculation but thought worth mentioning...
With all the negative press Sony has been getting after E3...i think we might see some changes when TGS comes around.

 

[expletive]

I have been reading lots of Japanese press and saw that Wii has been gathering overwhelmingly positive response, but PS3's reception has been overwhelmingly negative...I am starting to think if Sony made a good decision announcing price on E3...since Nintendo has yet to release any price for Wii.
Also Japanese press is talking about possibility that PS3's high price announcement is to avoid possible MS's price reduction in response to PS3's price announcement...it might be a wild speculation but thought worth mentioning...
With all the negative press Sony has been getting after E3...i think we might see some changes when TGS comes around.

IIRC, Sony put no MSRP on the $600 model in Japan. This means that retailers can charge whatever they can get for the units, which will probably be a LOT. Doesnt that seem like a potential mess? I think in the US, people would be screaming bloody murder that Sony didnt protect them from price gouging.

 

[koldfuzion]

Agreed Demo. It is a moot debate in my case. 15 years of playing drums, digital, analog SSDD.

 

[Gubbi]

Thank you powerderKeg, there is someone here who knows about hi-fi

Hilarious

Cheers

 

[Shifty Geezer]

We used i dentical set's for the test set ot the same settings, using a THX reference set-up disk, components just better ( more artifacts, but a nice high end DVD player hardly has any of them anyway )

What I was saying was the difference in picture is not due to limitations in the signals.

Both analogue and digital are capable of delivering the same information, though with varying amounts of accuracy and noise. But 100% red on the digital red channel is 100%, just as it is on the analogue. The variation of the displayed picture has to be based on how the TV deals with the signals. eg. It might take a value of 128 for red and display that at a pixel brightness of 0.45, whereas with a red signal of 0.5 it displays the red brightness for that pixel at 0.55. Or the output device is outputting a higher analogue intensity than the digital value. Whichever, the signal delivery format, analogue or digital, isn't the factor for those differences of colour.

 

[nelg]

I have been reading lots of Japanese press and saw that Wii has been gathering overwhelmingly positive response, but PS3's reception has been overwhelmingly negative..

Sony's press has been lukewarm at best. Sony is the new Microsoft.

 

[Danalys]

let me get this straight, people are saying it's better to convert a digital source (DVD Blu-ray HD-DVD) to analog to pass over componant than it is to keep the signal digital.

you can mention vinyl but it doesn't matter since that is an analog source so keeping it analog would be best.

less conversions the better. you only get the weaknesses of both transmission systems with conversion.