PGR2: confirmed 30fps only.

[Legion]

I have to agree with Zurich.

If you are examining the splinter in the Xbox's eye then for a second examine the plank in the PS2's eye.

A great deal of the PS2's new titles have monsterous slowdowns.

Chaos Legion will churn at 30 or sub 30 in numerous locations especially with a constant amount texture particles as on screen.

Don't even get me started on silent hill 3. You exist in a world of darkness and fog (but Legion they are there for artistic value ). Finding nasty slowdowns consistantly in any well lit area isn't a problem; take a minute to notice there are never many enemies composed of many polygons in well lit rooms either.

Star Ocean 3's worst enemy is volumetric effects. Otherwise the game is pretty rock solid.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Well this game DID get nominated for best racer at E3 along with GT4 (which won, I think).

 

[marconelly!]

Slowdowns in SH3? Is that some kind of joke? I haven't encountered any so far and I've heard there's only some in one open area because the game keeps constantly loading. Is that a *monstrous* slowdown? Please. Other two games you mentioned are hardly cream of the crop, or polished in any way for that matter (they look like crap, IMO).

ZOE2 keeps 60FPS *WAY* more than 50% of time. It depends a lot of how you actually play it, and how much you let enemies swarm around you, but I would say it's 60FPS probably 80-85% of time, and the actual offender is that level with giant fight against hundreds of enemies.

Well, now that I think about it, I might agree with 50-60% comment, because all the cut scenes run at 30FPS

 

[Qroach]

perhaps it because some people here don't notice framrate rate drops?

 

[CosmoKramer]

Question: Is the PS2 really capable of multi-texturing as that is a very specific operation meaning that several textures are combined in a single rendering pass?

I get the feeling that many here think that multitexturing is the same as multi-pass rendering.

 

[Fred]

People are confusing input sampling with internal rendering sampling (further diluted b/c a TV has a capped pseudo interlaced signal)

Two disjoint concepts, the only overlap is in the brain.

 

[marconelly!]

I get the feeling that many here think that multitexturing is the same as multi-pass rendering.

Well, in both cases you get multiple textures on an object which is what matter at the end of the day, no?

 

[zurich]

Slowdowns in SH3? Is that some kind of joke? I haven't encountered any so far and I've heard there's only some in one open area because the game keeps constantly loading. Is that a *monstrous* slowdown? Please. Other two games you mentioned are hardly cream of the crop, or polished in any way for that matter (they look like crap, IMO).

ZOE2 keeps 60FPS *WAY* more than 50% of time. It depends a lot of how you actually play it, and how much you let enemies swarm around you, but I would say it's 60FPS probably 80-85% of time, and the actual offender is that level with giant fight against hundreds of enemies.

Well, now that I think about it, I might agree with 50-60% comment, because all the cut scenes run at 30FPS

Well you must overclock your PS2 or not use subweapons or something, because it can be *bad*. Off the top of my head when the game chugs:

-Fighting the first boss when she uses her mega particle attack thing (Nephtis I think)
-The train, oy big big big big time slowdown there (when it starts smoking)
-The aerial fleet attack, the draw distance is too much and really chokes the system, especially when they fire the anti-air lasers at you.
-The massive attack with like 300 enemies, duh
-Any fight with Aubis when he uses his red particle attack thing (Urenbrecht Catapult is the worst of the bunch)
-Some subweapons are worse than others.. obviously zero-shift does nothing to the framerate, but some like Phalanx and Halberd can be pretty brutal.

Maybe 50% was a bit much, probably more like 65-70%, depending on the game situation. Strictly speaking, there are some situations beyond your control (that I mentioned above) where you do nothing but play the game and it chugs to unbearable levels :?

 

[Legion]

Slowdowns in SH3? Is that some kind of joke? I haven't encountered any so far and I've heard there's only some in one open area because the game keeps constantly loading.

Bullshit! I had slowdows all over Silent Hill especially within the hospital.

Is that a *monstrous* slowdown? Please. Other two games you mentioned are hardly cream of the crop, or polished in any way for that matter (they look like crap, IMO).

Hell yes they were monsterous. I ran into quite a few choppy areas within the subway station though i couldn't explain why. Perhaps there is a problem with the disc or my PS2.

ZOE2 keeps 60FPS *WAY* more than 50% of time.

Right...when there are only two visible enemies. Most of the boss fights have slowdowns. Namely the anubis battles.

It depends a lot of how you actually play it, and how much you let enemies swarm around you, but I would say it's 60FPS probably 80-85% of time, and the actual offender is that level with giant fight against hundreds of enemies.

In other words if you reduce the enemy count continously to two there will be no slowdown problems. Yeah, and if i shoot all the grunts in Halo i won't get a slow down either.

Well, now that I think about it, I might agree with 50-60% comment, because all the cut scenes run at 30FPS

And a lot of the boss battles too

 

[JacksBleedingEyes]

Hey r u guys sure that the FFX runs at at least 30 fps
I mean I played Twisted Metal Black, and as soon as I went to FFX 2 hours later to framerate seemed to be really low
may 20 to 30 max

 

[chaphack]

These two games run at 60FPS 99% of the time (especially MGS2 where you pretty much have to do something stupid to slow it down). What are they doing on that 30FPS list?

99% of the time...sorry no. And they are on the "30fps list" because, as i have clearly stated >>>> 30fps[/i]/fps problems[/i]

I give ZOE2 around 60%, at best, and when slowdowns occur, they REALLY are noticeable. Of course an overclocked PS2 might work wonders..

I give MGS2:Sub Snake Tales 70% of the time. Somehow the whole chapter just dont run as smooth as the normal game.

 

[chaphack]

To add something more to think about:

can the average consumer notice the different between multi-texturing, specular lights, bump mapping or true polygon bumps? Can he notice the difference in a game running a constant 30 fps framerate opposed to a game at 60 fps? After all, he has no idea what bump mapping is, never heard of dot3 or what specular lights are in that case. So, how would he be able to tell the difference?

To answer that question: the average consumer might not be able to distinctively say what exactly looks better, but he most definately can perceive the difference.

First off, we are definitely not average consumers...so..

STILL, i rather disagree. I say average consumers are more prone to visual difference than fps difference(locked 60fps vs locked 30fps). Not knowing BM/SL/MT/whatever are, doesnt mean one cannot perceive the visual improvements. Give them a normally textured Master Chief vs a BM Detailed textured MC, and...

FPS is so much more subjective to one's ability to catch em difference and not as clear cut as a detailed model vs a normal model. Like quincy said, PGR2 was thought to be 60fps by many game sites... 8)

Who agrees with me?

 

[marconelly!]

I ran into quite a few choppy areas within the subway station though i couldn't explain why. Perhaps there is a problem with the disc or my PS2.

In *that* area? Well it actually might be that your PS2 drive is crapping out so it can't load fast enough...

Right...when there are only two visible enemies. Most of the boss fights have slowdowns. Namely the anubis battles.

I don't get it... First anubis encounter barely has any, same for that particle weapon that Nephtis uses - that part of the game actually surprised me that it didn't slowed down. I honestly think it's just that when you people encounter the slowdown it sticks in your mind a lot, so you give it too much of a significance when you calculate your 'percentages' That goes especially to MGS2:S Snake tales - they slow down more often, yes, but it's still soooo rare.

 

[CosmoKramer]

I get the feeling that many here think that multitexturing is the same as multi-pass rendering.

Well, in both cases you get multiple textures on an object which is what matter at the end of the day, no?

Sure, but again, multi-texturing is a clearly defined operation. So, is the PS2 capable of it? That's an honest question.

 

[Ozymandis]

Right...when there are only two visible enemies. Most of the boss fights have slowdowns. Namely the anubis battles.

I don't get it... First anubis encounter barely has any, same for that particle weapon that Nephtis uses - that part of the game actually surprised me that it didn't slowed down. I honestly think it's just that when you people encounter the slowdown it sticks in your mind a lot, so you give it too much of a significance when you calculate your 'percentages' That goes especially to MGS2:S Snake tales - they slow down more often, yes, but it's still soooo rare.

I agree with them. There really is a lot of slowdown in ZOE2. Worst I encountered was with the fight against Vic Viper. The game ran in the low single digits.

I couldn't put a percentage on it myself, but in pretty much every "significant" battle there is slowdown

 

[zidane1strife]

Well with regards to slowdown... It could be in part do to dirty drives, since alot of ps2 titles tend to stream a lot...

I'd recommend the RADIO SHACK CARBON EDGE DVD/CD lens cleaner, it's several fold beyond any other...

I say this because, for example, I experienced slowdown in ZOE2, sometimes serious slowdown, but it wasn't as constant/frequent as it seems is being implied.

 

[Bowie]

Question: Is the PS2 really capable of multi-texturing as that is a very specific operation meaning that several textures are combined in a single rendering pass?

Here's the definition of multi-texturing from Beyond3d's glossary:

Multitexture:
The process of applying multiple textures to polygons in a model. This is usually done by performing multiple texturing passes (called blending) until the image is completed.

http://www.beyond3d.com/words/page_m.php

Under this definition, the PS2 is capable of multi-texturing.

 

[notAFanB]

I get the feeling that many here think that multitexturing is the same as multi-pass rendering.

Well, in both cases you get multiple textures on an object which is what matter at the end of the day, no?

Sure, but again, multi-texturing is a clearly defined operation. So, is the PS2 capable of it? That's an honest question.

a software renderer is fully capable of MT. perphaps you meant whether PS2 has logic support for MT which is similar to DX lvl cards (which is no btw).

 

[CosmoKramer]

Question: Is the PS2 really capable of multi-texturing as that is a very specific operation meaning that several textures are combined in a single rendering pass?

Here's the definition of multi-texturing from Beyond3d's glossary:

Multitexture:
The process of applying multiple textures to polygons in a model. This is usually done by performing multiple texturing passes (called blending) until the image is completed.

http://www.beyond3d.com/words/page_m.php

Under this definition, the PS2 is capable of multi-texturing.

AFAIK, texturing pass != rendering pass.

 

[CosmoKramer]

perphaps you meant whether PS2 has logic support for MT which is similar to DX lvl cards (which is no btw).

Yes, thanks.