PGR2: confirmed 30fps only.

[Bowie]

AFAIK, texturing pass != rendering pass.

Look at Beyond3d's definition for multipass texturing:

Multipass texturing:
The process of applying multiple textures to polygons in a model by performing multiple texturing passes (called blending) until the image is completed.

http://www.beyond3d.com/words/page_m.php

Basically, they use the same definition for multi-texturing.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Hmm, then I believe the B3D definitions are too vague or incomplete, as that would mean that there is no difference between multi-texturing and multi-pass texturing. I'd say 3dfx would say otherwise...

 

[randycat99]

That entirely depends on if you choose to get hung up on implementation vs. end results. I think, for the sake of this discussion, the greater goal is what is possible in the end results, with a special footnote about the differences in implementation just for the sake of being informative and accurate.

 

[notAFanB]

Hmm, then I believe the B3D definitions are too vague or incomplete, as that would mean that there is no difference between multi-texturing and multi-pass texturing. I'd say 3dfx would say otherwise...

in a purely blackbox appraoch there isn't. there are merits to different approaches to this common problem.

 

[Fafalada]

Hmm, then I believe the B3D definitions are too vague or incomplete, as that would mean that there is no difference between multi-texturing and multi-pass texturing.

Speaking from programmer perspective, the only relevant difference is precision

 

[notAFanB]

Hmm, then I believe the B3D definitions are too vague or incomplete, as that would mean that there is no difference between multi-texturing and multi-pass texturing.

Speaking from programmer perspective, the only relevant difference is precision

Precision? care to elaborate?

 

[CosmoKramer]

Hmm, then I believe the B3D definitions are too vague or incomplete, as that would mean that there is no difference between multi-texturing and multi-pass texturing.

Speaking from programmer perspective, the only relevant difference is precision

Isn't MT also faster because geometry passes are saved?

 

[CosmoKramer]

Hmm, then I believe the B3D definitions are too vague or incomplete, as that would mean that there is no difference between multi-texturing and multi-pass texturing.

Speaking from programmer perspective, the only relevant difference is precision

Precision? care to elaborate?

In multipass texturing the intermediate results are sent to the backbuffer(?) and thus truncated to 24 (or 16 bits). Then this result is blended with other truncated results --> precision suffers. Or something like that anyway.

 

[notAFanB]

Isn't MT also faster because geometry passes are saved?

in what terms? cycles used/raw speed?

In multipass texturing the intermediate results are sent to the backbuffer(?) and thus truncated to 24 (or 16 bits). Then this result is blended with other truncated results --> precision suffers. Or something like that anyway.

isn;t this architecture dependent? that is this culd be resolved if we increase the precision of the backbuffer (with the associated costs of course).

 

[CosmoKramer]

in what terms? cycles used/raw speed?

If two textures are used, for a GPU that can manage 2 textures per rendering pass the geometry requirement should be halved (as opposed to doing it in two rendering passes). And so on.

isn;t this architecture dependent? that is this culd be resolved if we increase the precision of the backbuffer (with the associated costs of course).

I guess so. Perhaps the PS2 has some way to overcome that, Fafalada likely knows

 

[notAFanB]

If two textures are used, for a GPU that can manage 2 textures per rendering pass the geometry requirement should be halved (as opposed to doing it in two rendering passes). And so on.

again architecture dependent here (unles we limited any dicussion to DX space). the Ps2 at least deals with this a little differently (something about resubmitting the display list *shrugs*).

 

[Fafalada]

FP framebuffers make the precision issue moot of course.
But prior to those, the max FB precision you got was 8bit per color component, while internal chip calculations are usually performed at more then that.
Obviously internal precision is architecture dependant though.

Isn't MT also faster because geometry passes are saved?

This is an architectural issue - as long as architecture allows you to only repeat the setup and rasterizer can setup triangles about as fast as it fills them (as GS does), the differences are marginal.

 

[MrWibble]

Hmm, then I believe the B3D definitions are too vague or incomplete, as that would mean that there is no difference between multi-texturing and multi-pass texturing.

Speaking from programmer perspective, the only relevant difference is precision

Except when you want to alpha-blend the resultant surface into the scene rather than just render it fully opaque. For example, applying a lightmap to a semi-transparent surface (like some water). With multi-texture, thats relatively trivial. Doing that with multi-pass is a nightmare, and not just because of any precision issues.

 

[Legion]

In *that* area? Well it actually might be that your PS2 drive is crapping out so it can't load fast enough...

Areas with the "burning walls" and any room where at least 3 enemies are visisble at once. A major slow down occurd in the "bleeding room."

Also while walking through the city the frame rate became visibly choppy.

While following the path to the roller coaster i noticed numerous slow downs.

Lets also admit the fog and darkenss aren't cosmetic entirely Marc. Please.

If we suddenly decided to cut PGR2's draw distance to 1/3 its original capacity and brought the frame rate up to 60 would some of you not longer have a problem....at least those who are impressed by Silent Hill's 60 fps ?

I don't get it... First anubis encounter barely has any, same for that particle weapon that Nephtis uses - that part of the game actually surprised me that it didn't slowed down.

Well he must not have be using any affect by the sound of it. My frame rate became choppy every single time one of his large shots came by.

I honestly think it's just that when you people encounter the slowdown it sticks in your mind a lot, so you give it too much of a significance when you calculate your 'percentages' That goes especially to MGS2:S Snake tales - they slow down more often, yes, but it's still soooo rare.

I think the entire comparison is absurd. More than likely if the xbox's titles are running at 30 fps then counterparts on other systems would be running at 30 or less (assuming the ports are nearly identical). I often feel this way when people gripe about Halo's 30 fps. Would anyone in their right mind believe this is merely and xbox problem? Would halo some how run at a magical 60 fps if it were on the gamecube or the PS2? I don't think so.

I am truly happy for some of you how are over joyed at your favorite titles running at 60 fps. You are free to compare and contast your titles 60fps and the Xbox's titles which run at 30 fps. That is fine with me. I have only one question. How fast could your 60 fps titles run on an xbox?

 

[Phil]

I think the entire comparison is absurd. More than likely if the xbox's titles are running at 30 fps then counterparts on other systems would be running at 30 or less (assuming the ports are nearly identical). I often feel this way when people gripe about Halo's 30 fps. Would anyone in their right mind believe this is merely and xbox problem? Would halo some how run at a magical 60 fps if it were on the gamecube or the PS2? I don't think so.

I am truly happy for some of you how are over joyed at your favorite titles running at 60 fps. You are free to compare and contast your titles 60fps and the Xbox's titles which run at 30 fps. That is fine with me. I have only one question. How fast could your 60 fps titles run on an xbox?

This isn't about platform comparison - it's about not being happy with a framerate with the given game. If you are implying that a consumer who owns a Xbox and is disappointed by framerate issues everytime he pops in a 30 fps title into his most technlogicly advanced gaming device should feel better just because it would probably run slower on x console? That's absurd, not to mention not being much confort to the one playing the game anyway. :?

In *that* area? Well it actually might be that your PS2 drive is crapping out so it can't load fast enough...

A valid assumption actually. I remember people telling me about the slowdown in Jak & Daxter and even so, after having completed the game 4 time already, I'm still searching for it...

 

[PC-Engine]

Areas with the "burning walls" and any room where at least 3 enemies are visisble at once. A major slow down occurd in the "bleeding room.

Then I was right afterall when I said I saw slowdown in that SH3 trailer where there are three enemies onscreen.

 

[zurich]

Areas with the "burning walls" and any room where at least 3 enemies are visisble at once. A major slow down occurd in the "bleeding room.

Then I was right afterall when I said I saw slowdown in that SH3 trailer where there are three enemies onscreen.

Well, I've played the game through three times so far and haven't noticed any slowdown, so...

 

[PC-Engine]

Areas with the "burning walls" and any room where at least 3 enemies are visisble at once. A major slow down occurd in the "bleeding room.

Then I was right afterall when I said I saw slowdown in that SH3 trailer where there are three enemies onscreen.

Well, I've played the game through three times so far and haven't noticed any slowdown, so...

...so Legion's observations are just figments of his imagination? :?

 

[cthellis42]

...or connected to other problems, such as the aforementioned dirty lens...

I also haven't seen any slowdowns in SH3, though admittedly I haven't played it much by myself yet. (Was watching a friend, and one of his fights was in a hallway with 2-3 of those queer flying things and some demon dogs.) There wasn't enough to be noticable and commented on by any of us, and not enough that interrupted his combat flow, so... <shrugs> I can always inquire again, or pay more attention when I start playing it myself more often. <grins>

 

[notAFanB]

...so Legion's observations are just figments of his imagination?

no I've played through 3 time on normal an encountered no such thing. I'll give that having many enemies onscreen may cause a frame dip (not that it occurs often) but I found no issues withte 'bleeding room' and 'bleeding coridor' so I am not sure why it choppy for him.