Dynamic framebuffer resolution

DSoup

Series Soup
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Do you have any data to support this? AFAIK most newer TVs support 24, 30 50 and 60 fps. But you might know something I don't.

I'd be very surprised if the core components in all TVs made in the last ten years are not capable of supporting 50Hz and 60Hz on an electrical level. 50Hz and 60Hz are throwbacks to when TV frame frequencies were regulated by the utility frequency (of AC) in the country they were used in but I can't believe any TV manufacturer hasn't moved to programmable PLLs nor is there any reason for the panel itself to be engineered to only operate at specific frequencies.

In the EU we've long had 60Hz support in our TVs but I suppose it's possible in the US that it costs more for FCC certification if you're including 50Hz as well. I don't know how certification works in the US.
 

Shifty Geezer

uber-Troll!
Moderator
Legend
This was raised recently. My Googlage suggests that NTSC TVs have the hardware support for 50 Hz but lock it out in the FW, and US TVs typically can't show 50 Hz content at native refresh.

I don't know how people could test that. If you stick a 50 Hz movie on a US console, will it output 50 Hz as here and leave the TV to handle it, or will it send a 60 Hz version?
 

turkey

Veteran
Change your xbox one region to the uk then enable 50hz mode and see if you completely loose access to the xbox as it will send all output at 50hz, the tv has to deal with it.

Might be safter to try if you also have pc monitor that supports 50hz to change back although i believe some button ckmbe on boot resets videp settings as a safety backup.
 

Shifty Geezer

uber-Troll!
Moderator
Legend
Isn't there a "do you want to keep this setting?" option when you switch refresh rate? There is on PS3, with a 10 second or somesuch timeout to return to the previous setting.

If it's as simple as changing an X1 setting, it'd be great to get some sampled data from the B3D populace to answer this question once and for all.
 

turkey

Veteran
Yes under video output (also in new dash) pal regions have the option to enable 50hz,when selecting i believe it makes the switch (my tv blanks for a second) and gives you 15 seconds till it reverts.

I am not sure if it jumps to and from 50 in normal usage but I assume at least this dialog must be at 50hz to allow you to confirm it works, my set goes black briefly when enabled so did switch something.
 
Even if it's not being administer on the OS level, I'm hoping the big studios would consider investing in this type of software to leverage the hardware in these boxes this generation.
 
This was raised recently. My Googlage suggests that NTSC TVs have the hardware support for 50 Hz but lock it out in the FW, and US TVs typically can't show 50 Hz content at native refresh.

I don't know how people could test that. If you stick a 50 Hz movie on a US console, will it output 50 Hz as here and leave the TV to handle it, or will it send a 60 Hz version?


Well, this was briefly discussed on Doom9 some time ago, see the following post for example, quote:

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1617983&postcount=114 said:
No. Almost all TVs in the US will refuse to show 50hz signals. I was one of the calibrators / speakers at the Value Electronics Shootout last year in New York. I'm from Europe so brought some 50hz test content with me.

Out of the 6 flat panel displays there, an LG Plasma and Sharp ELITE LCD showed the 50hz content. The Panasonic LCD, Panasonic Plasma, Samsung LCD and Samsung Plasma refused to show anything. Kind of crazy in 2012...

Even if they could, support for the 50hz frame rates is optional for BD players sold in 60hz countries. Fewer BD players in the US can play 50hz.


Anyway, even if you have a display that can sync to 50 Hz, it most likely would suck to switch from 60 Hz to 50 Hz, since it would not be instantaneuos. The display would probably blank out (show a black screen) for a few seconds before re-syncing, which would make it useless for gaming.

What consoles would really need is something like AMD's FreeSync or Nvidia's G-Sync, plus TV manufacturers really need to start producing TVs that support FreeSync and G-Sync.

And FreeSync and G-Sync need to start supporting lower refresh-/frame-rates better.

That would be the best. That would solve so many issues with consoles.

Actually in one of their latest videos, AMD has announced LFC (Low Framerate Compensation) and bringing FreeSync to HDMI in 2016, see:


Let's hope this will allow the PS4 and Xbox One (which both have a AMD GPU with HDMI output) to enable FreeSync over HDMI and encourage TV manufacturers to start supporting FreeSync in their TVs, either via developing new TVs or enabling it for existing TVs via firmware updates :smile2:.

Now that would be incredible!
 

Alucardx23

Regular
Why can we have this for regular PC/Console games!?

"How it works is simple. The SteamVR runtime measures the speed of your GPU and tells applications to render at an appropriate resolution based on the power of your GPU. There are many customers right now with GPUs that aren’t being fully utilized. These customers will now automatically have their VR application resolution up-res’ed – the end result being a clearer and better looking VR experience.

Customers who have GPUs that can’t quite render the native resolution of their headset will automatically see images rendered at a slightly lower resolution that is more appropriate for the speed of their GPU. (Application resolution will never be automatically set lower than the Vive or Rift’s native resolution)

The best part is that customers won’t have to do anything to get the correct resolution settings. The SteamVR runtime does all the hard work. Of course, if one prefers a different resolution, it’s easy to manually override this by editing the Video settings in SteamVR (previously known as supersample settings)."

VR Resolution Redefined
http://steamcommunity.com/games/250820/announcements/detail/1661138371528106606
 

Shifty Geezer

uber-Troll!
Moderator
Legend
1) We already have dynamic resolution in a lot of console games
2) There's no need for system-level, automagical dynamic res for consoles where the hardware is fixed and games can be made and tuned for exactly that hardware.
 

Alucardx23

Regular
1) We already have dynamic resolution in a lot of console games
2) There's no need for system-level, automagical dynamic res for consoles where the hardware is fixed and games can be made and tuned for exactly that hardware.

But that's the thing, the great majority of games don't use a dynamic resolution and because of this we also have games with unstable framerates. I would also enjoy the feature of having supersampling when possible for all games.
 
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sebbbi

Veteran

My preliminary results with UE 4.19 temporal upscaler. 1080p upscaled to 4K looks closer to 4K. Significant improvement.

I am personally much more interested about temporal upscaling than dynamic resolution. Our frame rate is very stable, so dynamic resolution doesn't do much for us. But getting almost native looking 4K on PS4 Pro and Xbox One X is definitely going to be nice improvement.
 

milk

Like Verified
Veteran
I am personally much more interested about temporal upscaling than dynamic resolution. Our frame rate is very stable, so dynamic resolution doesn't do much for us.

If your framerates are stable at the res you are at, maybe that means you can use dynamic res to have it be even higher res when possible. I imagine your game is stable because you balanced it for the worstcases, so use that to have it render at hires on best case, you could even get super sampling on ps4 then...
 

sebbbi

Veteran
If your framerates are stable at the res you are at, maybe that means you can use dynamic res to have it be even higher res when possible. I imagine your game is stable because you balanced it for the worstcases, so use that to have it render at hires on best case, you could even get super sampling on ps4 then...
Added dynamic res too. Get up to 10% higher resolution in lightweight areas. Nice improvement. PS4 Pro now looks surprisingly close to native 4K (Titan X), and still runs at locked 60 fps.
 
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