PGR2: confirmed 30fps only.

[chaphack]

Basically I think many of us find it rather curious that for what's bandied about to be an "utterly dominant console" there are so many premiere titles coming out at 30 fps, while the PS2 is consistently delivering 60 fps titles that are both top-tier, and consistently improving their graphical quality as well

a short random list of PS2 games, consisting of Japanese/Western developers and their low/mid/top tier games, with 30fps/fps problems:

FFX
Suikoden3
ZOE2
Silent Hills
MGS2 Substance
Dynasty Warriors
Kessens
Midnight Clubs
NFS
Auto Modelista
Splashdowns
Stuntman
Gungrave
Red Factions
Getaway
GTAs
Primal
Splinter Cell

Again, it depends more on the type of games and developers. Nothing wrong with the Xbox per say.

Take Splinter Cell at 30fps and remove all the dynamic lighting, the progressive scan, the widescreen support and the free camera and you get MGS 2 at 60fps.

Heehee, more like SC PS2, but with 2X details, 2X textures, 2X audio, 2X fps.

 

[Ozymandis]

Final Fantasy X did have a decent framerate most of the time, but try petrifying a large enemy...

In racing game the only thing that you will really notice the difference in 30 vs 60 is the stuff flying past you at 100mph. So they arent the type of game that absolutely need 60fps. (BTW the reflections on the backs of the cars look funny on Gotham City Racing. Why is it like that?)

You'll notice a difference on turns. Racers IMO DO absolutely need 60 fps.

And on a tv the 30fps -> 60fps smoothness difference will be less than it would be on a monitor.

With HDTVs and progressive scan output from consoles this is no longer true I don't think.

 

[Fafalada]

If Gungrave is a top tier PS2 game then I shudder at the thought of what low tier could look like.

Anyway Chap,
there's no need for you to do bad damage control (it doesn't really help your case at all). You'll get your chance to get back at your PS2 nemesis on this very issue soon enough, although I don't know if you're capable of being patient even that long.

Incidentially, how do you define framerate problems? 10% of the time dropos? 5%? 1%? I mean we have have games out there that drop lik 0.1% of the time, is that a 'problem' too?

But would it make much difference to do those at 30 Hz, cos the renderer is 30fps? I mean what use is ther to sample player input 2 times faster than what is draw on screen.

Physics calculations usually require higher precision then sampling at 30hz(or even 60hz sometimes) can offer. It's quite common that certain parts of physics system are sampled at much higher rates(suspensions for example - we sample them at 240hz), and overall dynamics really needs 60hz for any hope of decent stability of the system.
AI "can" benefit from higher sampling since it reacts instantly to changes regardless of what is actually happening on screen. It's entirely dependant on the AI system whether it actually will benefit or not though (and particularly most racing games have AIs primitive enough that they hardly need high frequency updates).
Player input sampled higher will serve to reduce input latency - unfortunately nowhere near the levels of a 60hz game (as great as that would be if possible).

 

[chaphack]

If Gungrave is a top tier PS2 game then I shudder at the thought of what low tier could look like.

"a short random list of PS2 games, consisting of Japanese/Western developers and their low/mid/top tier games, with 30fps/fps problems"

Anyway Chap,
there's no need for you to do bad damage control (it doesn't really help your case at all). You'll get your chance to get back at your PS2 nemesis on this very issue soon enough, although I don't know if you're capable of being patient even that long.

Incidentially, how do you define framerate problems? 10% of the time dropos? 5%? 1%? I mean we have have games out there that drop lik 0.1% of the time, is that a 'problem' too?

Its nothing about DC. Dont see a need for it...

It was just a response to ""utterly dominant console" there are so many premiere titles coming out at 30 fps, while the PS2 is consistently delivering 60 fps titles"

STILL, from what i seen of the PGR2 video, i dare say it is the most beautiful racer yet, even though the cars proportion seem abit exaggerated..but it does look ULTRA SLICKLY SHARP!

sighz...if only BC had more time...

 

[Fafalada]

Ok my bad - didn't read your post carefully enough

Ironically paying a bit more attention to posts was something I was about to point to you also... namely

Its nothing about DC. Dont see a need for it...

I made absolutely no mention, reference, hint, alluding, or anything else that would so much as suggest the word DC?!?!, unless it's an abbreviation I'm not familiar with.
Of course, you also clearly missed the hint I Did make, but that's probably for the better right now

 

[Qroach]

Faf,

Was this the hint?

unfortunately nowhere near the levels of a 60hz game (as great as that would be if possible)

 

[chaphack]

DC = damage control

What hint? skimping meya posts?

 

[arhra]

Its nothing about DC. Dont see a need for it...

I made absolutely no mention, reference, hint, alluding, or anything else that would so much as suggest the word DC?!?!, unless it's an abbreviation I'm not familiar with.

I think he was abbreviating "damage control".

Anyway, 30fps/60fps, i'm not really all that bothered, as long as it's locked, and isn't bouncing around all over the place. Especially given this:

8)

 

[London Geezer]

Especially given this:


8)

yeah, especially given the ridiculous amount of AA that will NOT be present in the final game...

still, take out any GT4 picture and that pic u posted will look like a 30fps PC-looking racing game compared to utter bliss.

 

[arhra]

Especially given this:


8)

yeah, especially given the ridiculous amount of AA that will NOT be present in the final game...

still, take out any GT4 picture and that pic u posted will look like a 30fps PC-looking racing game compared to utter bliss.

Congratulations on completely missing the point

I couldn't give a shit about the AA, the important thing in that shot are the words on the sign

Nürburgring Nordschleife.

 

[Fafalada]

I think he was abbreviating "damage control".

Slaps forehead. I really need a vacation

Qroach, nope not that.

Chap, use your stalking skills, figure it out

 

[chaphack]

take out any GT4 picture and that pic u posted will look like a 30fps PC-looking racing game compared to utter bliss.

sorry but no.

 

[Nick Laslett]

It is sad to see so many members of what is a very technically literate forum, defend a racing title being released at the end of 2003 that only refreshes at 30 fps.

A racing game is all about fast reactions. Therefore the response time is critical. A sub-60 fps is below par for a game being released on this generation of hardware at this point in time.

As a PAL gamer I have had to put up with a lot of NTSC to PAL conversions that are less than satisfactory. There seems to be a lot of ignorance about the importance of Framerate. After you have experienced the PAL versions of Tekken 3, Devil May Cry, Halo you will begin to see the difference even 5 fps extra makes.

It is a FACT that a racing game running at 60fps will be more reponsive to inputs from the player. This will give the player increased control over his vehicle and improve his performance. Playing at 30 FPS is a backwards step. Drop your fanboy allegiancies and accept this FACT.

 

[cybamerc]

What's so impressive about that Nürburgring screen? Is that stucture even textured?

 

[London Geezer]

Congratulations on completely missing the point

I couldn't give a shit about the AA, the important thing in that shot are the words on the sign

Nürburgring Nordschleife.

yep. missed the point and still missing it. care to enlighten me? what is Nürburgring Nordschleife anyway? (had to cut and paste the name, never seen anything more untypable than that....)

 

[cthellis42]

Why, it's the Nürburgring North Loop, of course!

...

...yeah!

 

[London Geezer]

Why, it's the Nürburgring North Loop, of course!

...

...yeah!

right................ and it's reason to be happy because............................... :?

 

[cthellis42]

Nürburgringers make tasty pastries?

 

[London Geezer]

Nürburgringers make tasty pastries?

:? u know when someone says something and u dont know:
1) what they're talking about.
2) whether they're being serious.
3) whether they're taking the piss.
4) other (please specify)


right, i'm in that situation right about..... now.

 

[arhra]

It's only one of the most legendary circuits in all of motor racing history... 13 miles. At least 73 corners*. There's a good history of it here, go read it.



* I've seen higher numbers quoted, but it depends on what you count as a corner... 73 is the official number for the modern Nordscheife, which i assume is what PGR2 will feature.