Pachter: Apple 2013 Console
- Thread starter TheChefO
- Start date
Air Play has been present in Apple TV since at least launch the 2nd gen skus. Piping music and video around your home using iDevices isn't new.
Whats included in Mountain Lion will give any Apple TV in your home remote access to your Mac.
This would be a killer feature on a console. Imagine that instead of buying multiple PS4s for your home you bought one PS4 and then connected additional TVs with a $50-$100 PS TVs. Allowing gaming from anywhere in your home.
You wouldn't even need to house your PS4 in your entertainment center if Sony allowed a choice for an all DD solution and external HDDs to store your content.
The more I think about it the more I can see Apple revolutionizing the console gaming market. And I don't think they will do it by releasing a "console" but by extending the capabilities of their current products.
Whats included in Mountain Lion will give any Apple TV in your home remote access to your Mac.
This would be a killer feature on a console. Imagine that instead of buying multiple PS4s for your home you bought one PS4 and then connected additional TVs with a $50-$100 PS TVs. Allowing gaming from anywhere in your home.
You wouldn't even need to house your PS4 in your entertainment center if Sony allowed a choice for an all DD solution and external HDDs to store your content.
The more I think about it the more I can see Apple revolutionizing the console gaming market. And I don't think they will do it by releasing a "console" but by extending the capabilities of their current products.
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Hardware variety isn't really an issue with suitable middleware. It does mean losing out on peak performance, but the convenience is well worth it for many, I reckon. And for most content it's irrelevant; only for serious games. Well if you're looking at a game that can be played on console, PC and mobile, then that's hardly of great importance.
As for hardware companies savign the best stuff for themselves, that's fine. You need a reason for people to buy your profitable hardware after all. You just have to ensure that they have reasons to buy in but no reasons not to. In Apple's case, they could provide an improved experience on their hardware maybe, but as long as I have to buy an Apple device before I can consume Apple content, there's a big step. Surely it's better to offer iTunes on Droid and stuff to get people hooked on the content, and then wave a tantalising new bit of hardware to the people who already own iStuff and say, "run your iStuff on this for an even better experience than on your old Droid" ?
The problem with your argument is that Droid owners already have the capability to use itunes as the source of their music purchase. And I am sure that there maybe a few Droid owners who are originally ipod owners who still use itunes. For many Android users, not being forced to use itunes is one of the many reason they chose an alternative to the iphone.
The reason iOS enjoys a lot of the advantages it has over Android is because its not platform agnostic. If Android ends failing as a smartphone OS it will be due to the amount of control that Google ceded in an effort to see Android's userbase grow exponentially.
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As long as they can, then one reason to avoid Apple's ecosystem is mitigated. the more content that's locked to a hardware, the more reason you give consumer to stop and question if now is the time to buy into that ecosystem or if they should wait and see. Personally that's one fo the largest hurdles for me buying an Windows or iOS platform of any form. If Windows takes off on tablets and mobiles than it'll be safer. Otherwise I want open standards that i can take with me. SEN is offering an option now because I know I'll be able to use that content on lots of platforms in a way I can't trust of the others. And that means I can buy Sony hardware to use it, or Samsung, or ASUS, or whoever's making the best hardware irrespective of the software. If you had to buy a PC that was tied to a particular browser, so Dell always had Firefox and HP had IE and Alienware had Google, you'd be more apprehensive about the hardware you'd buy, no?
What option is that because looking through the Video Unlimited website the only devices capable of playing VU content is either Sony based hardware or Sony based software on a PC. What I am seeing is no different than Apple ecosystem.
Most of the DRM on these services aren't forced upon us by the manufacturers, they forced upon us by the content owners. Music on itunes is DRM free now but video is a different story and I know of no legitimate option for buying DRM free movies from anybody.
The beauty of Apple (and Sony I guess) ecosystem is that I am not require to fill my library with content bought through itunes/DRM based service. Software apps excluded, which is literally the case with all OSes. My library is 90% DRM free with only a handful of movies purchased through itunes for my son because I really have no interest in those movies myself. As long as that is an option, I am not worried about which hardware ecosystem I choose because for the most part I provide my own library. So all I am concern about is the hardware/software features themselves and product quality.
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That's because they're working on it. The goal is open. UV is an open standard to be supported across devices, if only the idiots managing it could get their act together.
Great, but that means you are outside of the considerations. And only for music and movies. For this brave new world of content on demand and cross-device downloads (how many of your download games are platform agnostic?), it is an issue. It's not just about videos and music, but apps and games and whatever else gets invented. A game bought for Live will run on a Windows PC, Xbox, and Windows phone, but that means you have to buy wholeheartedly into the Windows ecosystem to share that content. Likewise for iOS. Sure, you can run your apps on your Apple TV and iPod, but not on your Transformer eeePC. You ahve to buy into the Apple system 100% or miss out. An open system will liberate people from the hardware. You won't have to buy a new Samsung tablet to access your Samsung apps, because they are Android apps that work across devices. And you won't have to buy a Sony phone to play Sony games because they'll run on other certified phones like HTC. That's one extra issue to not have to worry about, unlike closed ecosystems.
Apple does not even have to show the mainstream press about their console, they can just show it at their Apple stores and that "5 million" number that you quote and repeat from that old pre-PS3 launch days will look like a silly little number...
And I am no Apple fan but I have seen their fans... and spoken to the average fans, most of them cannot give me a straight sensible explanation as to why they bought an Ipod, ipad or iphone. specially at premium prices that make you shudder.
And yet, those same fans have relatively neglected the fruit themed AppleTV product two generations in a row. And they've relatively ignored imacs as well.
It's not as though the logo on its own will be enough to move product as has been proven by AppleTV and imacs over the decades.
This is very true.
Basically, if you explain Apple sales with "fans" then you have to recognize just what Apple did to grow those fan based sales from 4-5 million per year a decade ago, to over 200 million last year.
In reality, only those who seek to actively deny the reality of what is happening refer to "Apple fans".
Shifty Geezer said:
I find it odd that you refer to iOS and Windows as closed and Android as open. They are all platforms with a single controlling entity for what is important in this discussion, the stores, they all allow content not bought via their stores, and none of their application environments are compatible with each other. To me, the situation from a software point of view, is very similar.
As far as I can see, they most significantly differ in how they finance their respective software efforts, but in the context of this discussion this has little impact for the end user. (Apple through hardware sales, Google through ad revenue, and Microsoft presumably through licensing, although at present their virtual PC OS/Office monopoly bankrolls all their other projects.)
UltraViolet the DRM format? UV is suppose to be platform agnostic but what does that have to do with what hardware ecosystem you choose. Apple doesnt officially support UV but UV is supported by iOS devices using apps like Flixster and UV will provide itunes download codes for your UV based purchases. You're railing against itunes/other proprietary hardware specific video format based marketplaces and not hardware ecosystems themselves especially Apple's because for the most part its format agnostic when the format isnt encumbered by DRM. itunes provides functionality in itself to convert imported movies into an iOS friendly format. And most DRM based content providers whose DRM isnt tied to specific hardware will not ignore Apple's iOS due to its large userbase.
An open system will liberate people from specific hardware only to bind them to a specific OS when it comes to software. There is no such thing as a real open system because you bound in some form or fashion and there seems no plans in the future to make software, as a standard, OS agnostic. In general, picking a specific OS will bind you to specific software and picking specific software will bind you to a specific OS. The exception being when software developers choose to support multiple OSes but thats done by providing different versions of their software.
Furthermore Android is the worst example of cross device compatibility when it comes to an platform agnostic OS. Most Android tablets are sold with "GingerBread" but most Android tablet apps are develop for "Honeycomb" and "IceCream" because technically Gingerbread isnt a tablet OS and is only compatible with phone app versions. The Kindle Fire is a forked version of GingerBread that doesnt support Google market so any google market app you buy on a Samsung, HTC, Motorola or other Google Market supported device requires you to root your Kindle to use, which isnt a real choice for your average consumer. Furthermore there is no guarantee that apps you purchased on one device will be available on an another device even if they share the same version of android because ultimately its the developers that decide how agnostic their android apps are when it comes to hardware. Android isn't a "bad" ecosystem in any sense of the word. Both Android and Apple have their pros and cons in respect to their open versus close systems. Android is a great choice because of its flexibility and deep customization and Apple is a great choice because of its simple and intuitive UI and the fact tablet and phone development tend to be iOS focused.
I chose Apple's ecosystem as my home's media platform (My phone is a Galaxy S) because its leaps and bounds ahead of every one else. My HTPC, my tablets and my son's Apple TV all share the same library and have been for a couple of years and all it took was turning on homeshare. Picking up a airport express would allow me to add sound hardware of my choice to a room and set it up through any idevice thats already part of my media network. Its simple and easy.
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Okay, that's one less issue with media content. But as I say, apps aren't portable.
But there is! We have HTML, and Java, which are platform agnostic and allow the same code to run on different hardwares. PSS is set to be platform agnostic. The opportunity exists to have apps and games that can run on a software layer irrespective of hardware, much like the PC only with better hardware abstracting hopefully reducing the compatibility errors that plagued the PC for many years. So where a Live! app will run on Windows and an iOS app will run only on iOS, a PSS app should be able to run on any device that gets certified which isn't just Sony hardware. Whether PSS achieves that or not, whoever does manage, maybe Valve with a Steam middleware and apps, that will have a buying advantage as I won't be tied to a particular manufacturer.
But apps. aren't hardware-agnostic. Some developers aren't having the easiest time making their apps. work on every Android device because of OS and hardware fragmentation.
Some of these apps. aren't even using hardware features, like GPS or accelerometer. It's just that there's a variety of SOCs out there.
Software has never been hardware-independent. Nobody expected Playstation games to run on Nintendo consoles. Or even new PC games to run on older PCs or older OSes.
So I'm not getting this "apps. should be platform agnostic" argument.
Some of these apps. aren't even using hardware features, like GPS or accelerometer. It's just that there's a variety of SOCs out there.
Software has never been hardware-independent. Nobody expected Playstation games to run on Nintendo consoles. Or even new PC games to run on older PCs or older OSes.
So I'm not getting this "apps. should be platform agnostic" argument.
Good, the more the merrier...
Monster Hunter Card Master Available on iOS/Android Today
http://andriasang.com/con01j/monhan_card_master/
Monster Hunter Card Master Available on iOS/Android Today
http://andriasang.com/con01j/monhan_card_master/
They do slightly different things. AirPlay handles playback primarily. I don't think it handles media browsing for instance. It's a way to stream your audio, video and screen from one Apple device to another.
DLNA handles the entire end-to-end media framework, from discovery to server to controller to playback and printing. There are additional standards on top of DLNA to cover other needs (e.g., PVR over DLNA. Ask jeff_rigby since he posted the relevant info before). Basic DLNA implementations should be pretty robust these days. But most PC/Mac implementations also attempt to transcode media. Since AirPlay is used exclusively by Apple devices, they already know what stack and profiles can be used. No transcoding is needed. This simplifies the experience tremendously.
Ultimately, it depends on your needs. If you want to play arbitrary media from the net, you may need a PC/Mac/Linux DLNA server or another transcoder to convert the media for even iOS to playback. If you just want to stream commercial audio/video/screen for Apple devices, AirPlay will work just fine. If you want DLNA and AirPlay together for a heterogeneous environment, you can also buy third party products that support *both*.
I will be creating in-car and living room entertainment systems that support both DLNA and AirPlay. They are not mutually exclusive. AirPlay can be licensed. Even Apple knows the world is too big.
Yeah, once they get tv's out there that have Apple TV built in, then any Apple device can mirror to any such tv. That's a good idea, where the Apple TV serves as a dumb terminal of sorts. It's cheap to build into tv's and provided the basics and/or grab new customers, then you can use your other Apple devices for more substantial stuff on the same TV. I'd presume Microsoft will follow suit with a similar idea, and over time the two of them will be the last ones standing. At this point I have to wonder if there are still any people left that don't believe Apple will be making a major play for the living room.
So we now have Microsoft bringing Live to Win 8, and Apple bringing Gamecenter to OSX. Let the games begin
AppleTV is still a hobby for Apple. Most of their efforts should/will be focused on iPad. It's a growth area where they have the lead. They probably won't stop until it is firmly entrenched in the business world, schools and at home.
Apple expressed earlier that the living room has too many competition. They are unlikely to make any move unless they have a breakthrough. Adding AirPlay mirroring and GameCenter to Mac OSX will benefit Mountain Lion more than AppleTV.
What AppleTV will need more is their rumored (new) TV service. They may also think of alternate use cases. The moment we hear confirmation about new livingroom services for iOS, then AppleTV will become more interesting. Then again, since it runs iOS, whatever AppleTV can do should be doable on an iPad (possibly with adaptor) too.
There are also repeated rumors of an Apple HDTV. It sounds intriguing, but I also can't help but think that the same HDTV display technologies can be applied to iPad too.
Just in your spare time?
Actually, there are a lot of AV receivers which support AirPlay. The audio part of it is well-supported and Apple isn't licensing the video streaming it seems.
Yap !
Yes, they added the video streams later and hasn't licensed that part out. As I understand, the implementation is still evolving.
The source material is either free/personal media or commercially available, you should be able to stream the same thing via other means too (e.g., Put your family media on a third party DLNA + iTunes server, Hulu Plus/NetFlix/Vudu/Roku/... are available on other devices or services as well).
The only exception is iCloud media. If it's just music match, then AirPlay should suffice. iCloud video is essentially HTTP Live Streaming (HLS), but I haven't looked at their authentication methods yet. HLS is an IETF draft created by Apple. You should be able to find HLS vendors too.
EDIT:
As "closed" as Apple is, their stack is usually based on open standards (See HTML5 vs Flash).
Another old game heading for iPad ($18):
Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions Finally Makes Its iPad Debut
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/02/2...ar-of-the-lions-finally-makes-its-ipad-debut/
I wonder how well these ported games sell...
Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions Finally Makes Its iPad Debut
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/02/2...ar-of-the-lions-finally-makes-its-ipad-debut/
I wonder how well these ported games sell...
Free Battlefield 3 iOS Game Pulled by EA Due to Multiple Issues:
http://www.ripten.com/2012/02/23/free-battlefield-3-ios-game-pulled-by-ea-due-to-suckiness/
http://www.ripten.com/2012/02/23/free-battlefield-3-ios-game-pulled-by-ea-due-to-suckiness/
Apple Reveals New “All-Time Top Apps” Following 25 Billion Downloads
http://www.macstories.net/news/apple-reveals-new-all-time-top-apps-following-25-billion-downloads/
http://www.macstories.net/news/apple-reveals-new-all-time-top-apps-following-25-billion-downloads/
