Pachter: Apple 2013 Console

[patsu]

Absolutely Stunning !

Garage Band is what I wanted RockBand to evolve towards. Something fun and educational. I'm using it to teach my son the foundation/theory of music.

All this time, I was hoping LBP would carry the iPhoto concept further too. It should empower the users to create stories, Internet apps and mini-games using their own media. I created a scrapbook for my Europe trip last year. It was exactly the same as what the iPhoto delivered in Apple's event today (e.g., Cut out maps, tore off calendar page, pasted in other pamphlets & collectibles in my kid's Euro trip photo album).



Will probably get an iPad 3 for the new apps. I doubt my iPad can run some of the more advanced features.

[size=-2]Come on Sony, make Playstations (PS3, Vita, PS Suite) interoperate with iOS. I can see a lot of interesting things with both platforms. PlayMemories and Music Unlimited for iOS better be amazing when they launch this quarter.[/size]

 

[Entropy]

I think the new iPad will sell a lot.
And sales may well accelerate as people experience the screen for themselves - it can't really be advertised properly, a bit like Nintendos 3D screen.
In the context of this thread, Apple didn't announce a gaming console.
They did announce an upgraded (1080p + new software) AppleTV with a single CPU core version of the A5 processor.

 

[patsu]

Yap, during the gaming segment, they commented that iPad 3 has more memory than home consoles like PS3 and 360.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

It could have 10 times the memory of even the best pc, it would still fail because half of the screen is taken up by a inferior control scheme for console/pc like games. But yeah, I'm sure there are people who will get exited about playing angry birds on 1080p+...

 

[patsu]

iPad helps broaden gaming appeal. It makes my wife think it's ok to game for long hours.

You may want to watch the presentation. They are showing Namco and Epic stuff now. No more publicity for Angry Birds. Those games already sell like hotcakes.

 

[wco81]

I'd like to have patsu's gadget budget and free time.

They cited a survey which supposedly found that among iPad owners who also had a console or a handheld, a majority cited the iPad as their favorite gaming device.

Supposedly a majority of iPad owners who also had eReaders preferred the iPad for reading too.


I'm not convinced that touch screens can't offer better control schemes. I tried FIFA on the Vita for a few minutes and played around with the back and front touch screens. I liked the touch passing and shots a lot actually. Instead of blending touch and physical controls they should let you use either.

I think I could pass through-balls better on a touch screen, leading my wingers better. But on a bigger screen like a tablet. you have more open spaces that you can kick the ball to. Instead of using the back touch pad for shots on goal they should let you just tap towards the goal to shoot.

Now if you use the physical controls, like I'm used to doing on the DS3, the through balls are dependent on you being able to use the D-pad or left stick accurately. But with a touch screen showing a lot of the futbol pitch, you can tap exactly to the open space you want.

Will EA offer this kind of touch controls for the iPad version? Who knows, they probably will have onscreen D-pads and buttons instead, that is, using a screen approximation of physical controls rather than coming up with a more touch-centric scheme. They have hinted at the latter with the Vita version so we'll see.

Oddly, the A5X may not be comparable in raw performance to the Vita SOC. Of course, software overhead will determine the final performance, as will the difference in rendered and outputted resolution. The Vita version of FIFA looked okay but the default camera made the players too small, smaller than they are in the console version.

 

[patsu]

I'd like to have patsu's gadget budget and free time.

Easy ! If you sleep less, you'll have more "free" time.

Both iPad and Vita are reasonably priced for what they are today. They are both very good systems for their intended purposes. iPad 2 price drop is also very welcomed. That means old iPads resale value has to drop too.

They cited a survey which supposedly found that among iPad owners who also had a console or a handheld, a majority cited the iPad as their favorite gaming device.

Supposedly a majority of iPad owners who also had eReaders preferred the iPad for reading too.


I'm not convinced that touch screens can't offer better control schemes. I tried FIFA on the Vita for a few minutes and played around with the back and front touch screens. I liked the touch passing and shots a lot actually. Instead of blending touch and physical controls they should let you use either.

I think I could pass through-balls better on a touch screen, leading my wingers better. But on a bigger screen like a tablet. you have more open spaces that you can kick the ball to. Instead of using the back touch pad for shots on goal they should let you just tap towards the goal to shoot.

Now if you use the physical controls, like I'm used to doing on the DS3, the through balls are dependent on you being able to use the D-pad or left stick accurately. But with a touch screen showing a lot of the futbol pitch, you can tap exactly to the open space you want.

Will EA offer this kind of touch controls for the iPad version? Who knows, they probably will have onscreen D-pads and buttons instead, that is, using a screen approximation of physical controls rather than coming up with a more touch-centric scheme. They have hinted at the latter with the Vita version so we'll see.

Oddly, the A5X may not be comparable in raw performance to the Vita SOC. Of course, software overhead will determine the final performance, as will the difference in rendered and outputted resolution. The Vita version of FIFA looked okay but the default camera made the players too small, smaller than they are in the console version.

You should try more Vita games ! FIFA is arguably not the most amazing nor most entertaining title.

I think touchscreen is alright for most purposes. It is better than dual sticks for some games or genre. Super quick action will be faster with a h/w button click no doubt.

Someone will probably compare the GPU and CPU in both machines soon.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Not hard. They have the same number of the same kind of graphics cores. Vita has twice as many of the same kind of CPUs. Vita also has dedicated video memory.

 

[wco81]

I'm a sports gaming fan so I checked out Virtua Tennis too. Uncharted looked good but that game is more cinematic and is better on a big screen.

The games they demo'd for iPad looked good, esp. the Dungeons game. May have seen some slowdown at some points though.

So this iPad will come out about a month after the Vita and almost match the raw power. Next year, it's likely to have better CPU and GPU cores as well as more RAM. Could be a short reign for portable gaming graphics crown.

 

[RudeCurve]

What is the clock speed of the ARM chip in Vita? What is the clock speed of the AX5?

 

[patsu]

So this iPad will come out about a month after the Vita and almost match the raw power. Next year, it's likely to have better CPU and GPU cores as well as more RAM. Could be a short reign for portable gaming graphics crown.

Traditionally, Sony allows closer to metal access to the GPU. Developers will optimize for the same hardware over time. iOS devices go through OpenGL ES layer in order to maintain backwards compatibility. For the same hardware, Vita should outperform iOS noticeably.

Vita sacrifices user experiences and allocate more OS resources for games. iOS is unlikely to make that kind of compromises. iOS needs to divide its resources amongst more services (e.g., universal voice recognition access, UI goodies like cut & paste clipboard, a modern and thick OO software stack to abstract low level operations).

In general, SCE focuses its energy on gaming technologies. Apple focuses its energy on general purpose computing. e.g., Sony's camera is optimized for high framerate capture for motion gaming, Apple's camera is optimized for high megapixel, and high fidelity for day to day use.

Hence, iOS offers a more compelling and well rounded user experience than Vita. However, it may take some time for iOS to show raw performance gain against Vita in gaming.

EDIT:
*If* Sony sticks to the same console business model, then Vita will become cheaper and cheaper as time progresses. OTOH, Apple will keep new iPad price "high" to maintain margin. Older models (one generation older) may be cheaper but will likely maintain their price point also. That means Vita may still compare favorably to older models.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah, according to Tim Sweeny (I think) it will ultimately take more than twice the raw hardware on power iOS or Android to match what will be possible on the Vita simply because it is a low overhead, game focused platform.

I do wonder why they haven't ported the Infinity Blade games to Vita yet, though. Does Epic have an exclusive deal with Apple?

 

[Arwin]

Yeah, according to Tim Sweeny (I think) it will ultimately take more than twice the raw hardware on power iOS or Android to match what will be possible on the Vita simply because it is a low overhead, game focused platform.

I do wonder why they haven't ported the Infinity Blade games to Vita yet, though. Does Epic have an exclusive deal with Apple?

Rather than twice, didn't he say something like up to 8x? He may have revised that statement though.

Who would want Infinity Blade on Vita? I personally can't see the appeal - the control inputs of the Vita allow for a much more fully featured experience if you ask me.

I'm more interested to see how easy it has ended up being to port a console UE3 game to the Vita. I've heard that Gravity Daze was a console UE3 title that was ported to Vita. Mortal Kombat Vita is another I presume? If I read the sources correctly, UE3 was available on Vita from 12 months ago. Apparently CryEngine supports Vita too.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

The new UE3 showreel shows another Vita game and also some WiiU footage fof Colonial Marines. UE3 support came in quick. Haven't heard about Cryengine yet. Their new showreel does not cover any mobile device.

 

[babybumb]

What is the clock speed of the ARM chip in Vita? What is the clock speed of the AX5?

I think Vita clocks are similar to iPhone variant. iPad will have higher because of large battery..

When Vita moves to 28/22nm will they clock it higher and screw existing owners battery life like with the PSP?

 

[patsu]

Clock speed and # of cores aside, Vita GPU received some proprietary extensions from Sony and Imagine Tech. Apple may also tailor the SoC for its own purposes. Would be interesting to see what those custom work introduced.

 

[patsu]

They cited a survey which supposedly found that among iPad owners who also had a console or a handheld, a majority cited the iPad as their favorite gaming device.

Supposedly a majority of iPad owners who also had eReaders preferred the iPad for reading too.

I find their comments interesting too.

It kinda depends on who they surveyed. Was told the eReaders are more popular among the seniors. Kindle is much lighter and easier on the eyes. The iPad is much more functional and mature. Fortunately for Apple, the future of ebooks and magazines will include video and other interactive features. The capability of the viewer app will likely become more important than the hardware attributes. Even iPad couldn't keep up with the new digital textbooks released months ago.

For iPad vs home consoles, I think iPad games are easy to get into. The home console games have story needs, skills, grinding and such. On top of that, iPad is portable so it can entertain the user anytime, anywhere he wishes. In practice, the iPad has become a babysitter for many families. It is common to see parents setting up their iPad in a restaurant to keep their infants and kids busy. It's a great helper tool for new parents ! ^_^

At some point, 3DS and Vita will have to extend beyond their current (core) gaming focus. Once Iwata and House are ready, they will likely make their move.

 

[patsu]

Epic: 'If next-gen consoles aren't bleeding edge, Apple will beat them'
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...les-arent-bleeding-edge-apple-will-beat-them/

The affable Unreal Engine exec assured us that, just like it did with Gears of War and the Xbox 360, it's "constantly pushing" platform holders with stunning demonstrations like its Samaritan demo, in an attempt to persuade them to make their next-gen platforms as "bleeding edge" as possible.

"Don't worry. We are absolutely every day [pushing platform holders]," Rein told CVG. "This is why we did Samaritan and why we're doing a really high-end demo in the room here. We really are pushing these guys, because if they don't, Apple will go right past them."

...

Hmm... that's one way to look at it. Not sure if it's the only way yet.

 

[patsu]

FromSoftware Looks to Smart Phones & Tablets, Says Dark Souls Success Changed Its Approach to Making Games
http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mi...success-changed-its-approach-to-making-games/

At GDC this week, I spoke with Masanori Takeuchi, head of R&D at From Software, and Eiichi Nakajima, executive producer and director of business development, about the developer's plans for the future. We talked about the future of the Souls series and its game development plans, which included talk of making games for devices like the iPhone and iPad.

"We've always been about making games for the core gamer," Nakajima explained. "And they weren't necessarily games that did well financially, which is too bad. The success of both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, which have each sold over a million [copies] per title worldwide, has made us shift our thinking internally to not just core gamers, but to globalize our products, that they can be successful on a worldwide scale. That's now one of the key pillars we consider when we develop games in the future."

I asked Takeuchi and Nakajima about the future of its Souls line, which they say will continue.

...

Where From Software may be exerting some of its efforts in the coming years is building games for iOS and Android devices.

Nakajima said the developer is "Considering future tablet and smart phone development, other new projects, and connecting our users with a lot of other publishers."

...

"We know what butters our bread, obviously it's consumer games," Takeuchi explained. "That's where we see some of our key strengths. That being said, as developers, we like to do new things and new challenges will help us mature and grow as a developer. Smart phones and tablets are an interesting challenge for us."

"If we do go down that path, it's not going to be what you see on the market today, [which are] more watered down, less 'core' experiences," he continued. "We like to make games for core gamers, so if we take that approach, it's going to be a core experience on a tablet, something that gamers are going to love."

"If you look at the install base of the two different types — 3DS and PS Vita versus smart phone and tablets — they're incredibly different," Nakajima later added. "For us, trying to find a way to appeal our content, the sort of games that we're good at, to a new audience is going to be a challenge."

...

"We're looking for more rich, in-depth network capabilities than just head-to-head play and cooperative stuff," Takeuchi said. "We want networking to be on a much deeper level."

 

[TheChefO]

"We've always been about making games for the core gamer," Nakajima explained. "And they weren't necessarily games that did well financially, which is too bad. The success of both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, which have each sold over a million [copies] per title worldwide, has made us shift our thinking internally to not just core gamers, but to globalize our products, that they can be successful on a worldwide scale. That's now one of the key pillars we consider when we develop games in the future."

That's sad.

Breaking everything down to the lowest common denominator gets rid of beautiful niche titles that aspire to push the industry ahead.

This concept of breaking down everything to be acceptable and pleasing to everyone sickens me. It generalizes and homogenizes the selection of games into a generic trend-chasing glob of ipad and itampon generic ****iness.

If the titles sold 1m each and the studio is having problems making ends meet, the problem isn't in the game, the problem is in the process of making the game.

_____________________

In the context of this thread, Apple didn't announce a gaming console.
They did announce an upgraded (1080p + new software) AppleTV with a single CPU core version of the A5 processor.

The context of this thread was for a Apple console in 2013 ...