Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[BadTB25]

The cameras are swapped yes but what this means is instead of one camera in moves case you have a camera per wiimote so for a 4 controller system you have 4 cameras whereas with move you have one no matter what.

To match moves functionality the motionplus addon needs to be bought as an addon for each wiimote. Once you have this each wiimote needs its own inbuilt camera which is above and beyond the materials needed in move. The built in battery adds cost to move but could work out cheeper for the consumer overall. Cost of bulb woud be an additional cost for move. wiimote has a speaker.

The move setup actually becomes better value the more controllers you add.

It still does not match the functionality though which is key, you should be looking at value rather than cost.

Things like this are not possible on Wii. Its easy to see them as essentially the same things but this isnt the case.

The demo was pretty cool, but I have feeling that it isn't something that couldn't be done with Natal (at least parts of it).

I wonder if Natal would add accessories like finger gloves that would allow the camera to read them easier for a similar or better interface ala Minority Report.

I like how creative the demo team were when thinking outside of the obvious implementations. I'm still more interested in motion controlled outside of games than within games.

 

[AzBat]

Perhaps, but Motus Darwin is expected to sell for $79 - $100 according to http://www.gamespot.com/news/6234451.html

And you like it more than Wiimote+ ? Now, multiply it by 4 players, how much premium are you paying ? What about the nunchuck ? Who's going to write games for it ?

That's only for motion tracking and compass-based absolute positioning. PS Move does what Motus Darwin is doing, plus all the controller-free stuff PS Eye is capable of, and you are afraid of a conservatively/theoretical $5 hike per controller ?

Sony sold PS Eye at a $10 premium in Eye of Judgment.

I've always talked about Darwin & the others in terms of their motion controller methods(no sensor, etc). Not their price or value proposition. Only brought them up to show there were other methods before the PS3 Move that I liked. Unfortunately, none of them will ever get released so talking about them further is just an exercise in futility. Right now out of the Big 3, the Wii with MotionPlus, is still hard to beat. If money was no object PS3 wit PSMove/PSEye would definitely be on top, but money is always an object in our home.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

The demo was pretty cool, but I have feeling that it isn't something that couldn't be done with Natal (at least parts of it).

I agree. Sony's "Minority Report" demo follow's the user's movement, and use 2 controllers. It is possible to tone it down to support efficient window management using just 1 controller, and no 3D movement (No need to walk around and bend over to shuffle windows).

It should be possible to simplify it to support only hand gestures. The difference would be in the snappiness, and whether an additional accessory is needed (I don't think so).


I was trying to look for the complete Engadget show video, but couldn't find it. There are some missing parts in the videos in this thread:

This one shows the puppetry demo before the Minority Report UI:

This one is pre-show (Dr. Marks' old experiments with PS Eye)"

 

[patsu]

I've always talked about Darwin & the others in terms of their motion controller methods(no sensor, etc). Not their price or value proposition.

If so, PS Move can do more than Morton Darwin (and you did complain about PS Move pricing). Retail price is similar since Sony and Morton promised under $100 (with a game). Btw, there are sensors in Morton Darwin. But it doesn't have a "secondary view" of itself to help determine the relationship of the motion controller w.r.t. the screen.

 

[AzBat]

That chart is terrible, $100 for a single move? Whoever made that needs thier head examined

Read the whole article at Gizmodo. The $100 is the low-ball price that includes 2 $40 Move controllers & a $20 sub-controller.

http://gizmodo.com/5491379/mental-math-the-playstation-move-experience-is-going-to-be-expensive

I think their $50 Move controller price is still low. I expect $55-$60.

Wii is going to work out cheaper overall i have little doubt, i dont see much point in the comparison though if the difference in features and experiences are not taken into account. In terms of value Move could win out by quite a margin.

It may indeed have a better value, but If people always bought everything based on the most bang for their buck, then everybody would be buying a PS3. But they're not, they're buying Wii & Xbox 360 more at least here in the US.

Tommy McClain

 

[ShadowRunner]

Read the whole article at Gizmodo. The $100 is the low-ball price that includes 2 $40 Move controllers & a $20 sub-controller.

http://gizmodo.com/5491379/mental-math-the-playstation-move-experience-is-going-to-be-expensive


Tommy McClain

You only need one move per person to reach the equivelent of what you get with Wii. PSMove supports a max of 4 wands or 2 wands and 2 subcontrollers. With 4 players each person will have one wand exactly like wii 4 player games. There artical is incorrect at a fundamental level.

The full config for Wii games = 4 wands(plus 4 motion+ for the majority) plus 4 nunchuck. Plus balance board.
The full config for Move games = 4 wands plus 2 nunchuck* and 1 camera.

*or DS3 you may already have one or more of

 

[patsu]

Yes, the article is flawed. There is no official data, so the numbers for 360 and PS3 are bogus.
The price are also meaningless without considering what the software can do, and how different they are. And we still don't know whether the subcontroller has sensors. The article is already corrected twice so far.

Other than helping Sony to prep the audience for low expectation, it's just leisure reading.

 

[patsu]

Notes on Project Natal:
http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/03/notes_on_project_natal.html

To be precise, you'll want to clear an area extending at least 4 meters (a little more than 13 feet) away from the television. That's the back edge of the space to be taken into account by the Natal sensors. In terms of width and height, the field of vision naturally expands as it moves from the Natal device to that back edge, ending up a little more than 4 meters wide and 2.7 meters high (about 8 feet, 10 inches).

one of the details that emerged from the session is that controllers and accessories can be used in conjunction with moving around to add even more elements of control to games.

... or snap your fingers, clap your hands, shout commands to simulate button presses. ^_^ (Good for home automation)

Mattrick said the response from consumers in testing of Project Natal has been "off the charts." Mattrick said he's excited about the types of experiences that game developers are creating with the system, declining to go into details. He noted that Natal is also getting interest from the broader entertainment industry, citing as an example Steven Spielberg's early endorsement.

The Natal team says the device requires less in the way of processing than the average smartphone, because they wanted to leave as much processing as possible available to the game itself.

Not sure what they mean by lesser processing than the average smartphone (processing what ? body tracking, voice recognition ?)

 

[Brad Grenz]

New Coke tested off the charts, too...

 

[rabidrabbit]

Huh? Natal needs 4 meters space between camera and the player.
http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/03/notes_on_project_natal.html

I guess it'd work with less distance, but 4 meters would be for optimal experience.
In my apartment my livingroom is little less than 4 meters from wall to wall in the direction I have my sofa and screen. Actual distance between sofa and screen is maybe 2,5 meters and there's a large, heavy coffee table between sofa and screen.
Natal would be just too much hassle for me to set up.

Edit: But the Milo demo worked with the "player" less than a meter away from the cam??? Did the prototype need that much less distance? Then why have they changed it for worse??

 

[Brad Grenz]

It needs 4 meters of open space so it doesn't get confused by furniture, etc. The player doesn't need to be 4 meters away.

 

[rabidrabbit]

It needs 4 meters of open space so it doesn't get confused by furniture, etc. The player doesn't need to be 4 meters away.

Ah! Ok, still, too much for me, unless I turn my whole livingroom setup 90 degrees.
In how many families can you convince them to clear up that much space just for some casual game playing? I would think many have at least a coffee table that would have to be moved every time.

 

[liolio]

Ugly, no way I can't fit it in my living room without huge adjustement, I could do a 90° just to play some games with my wife from time to time but honestly it's a bit too much bothering (or games would have to be really cool).

 

[goonergaz]

I could get similar experiences(not necessarily as good as or better) on the Wii for much less money.

Tommy McClain

I could drive a cheaper car, or buy a smaller house - what's your point?

You don't like it. Move along and buy the products you want and stop complaining, Sony are aiming for gamers who want accuracy and no frustration in there games with cash here, not those that think the Wii is cheap and good enough.

WRT the constant complaining of the price (based on no facts whatsoever) I find it laughable you've been given so much troll time...I mean even your guess of $5-10 more than the Wiimote - so what? That includes rechargable batts for a much nicer, more comfortable controller with more tech and better accuracy!

WRT overall value the PS3 has built in Bluray - people are begining to wake up to HD so might also consider this when buying a new console.

EDIT - I'll also add, I'm not best please I've been asked to spend another £80 by Ninty to fix their (let's face it) broken control system...and you're complaining about spending ~£80 on a completely new control system with demo.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Depends on the game, one that only tracks the upper body isnt likely going to be effected by a coffee table being there. If the game is the full body jumping around type you are probably going to want to clear a large area of space anyhow for safety reasons, especially with kids.

 

[goonergaz]

Depends on the game, one that only tracks the upper body isnt likely going to be effected by a coffee table being there. If the game is the full body jumping around type you are probably going to want to clear a large area of space anyhow for safety reasons, especially with kids.

Natal seems to be chipping away at it's potential purchasers. Firstly 4 player was dropped (so it's not so good for party games), then we're told finger tracking won't work & it uses a chunk (15% IIRC) of resources (so, not so good for serious gamers) and now it seems it won't work very well in small or crowded rooms (so, not so good for kids or families in flats/small houses etc).

What exactly is the target for Natal which seems more and more like a glorified eyetoy? MS need to start beating their drums IMHO.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Natal seems to be chipping away at it's potential purchasers. Firstly 4 player was dropped (so it's not so good for party games), then we're told finger tracking won't work & it uses a chunk (15% IIRC) of resources (so, not so good for serious gamers) and now it seems it won't work very well in small or crowded rooms (so, not so good for kids or families in flats/small houses etc).

What exactly is the target for Natal which seems more and more like a glorified eyetoy? MS need to start beating their drums IMHO.

No wonder they're already teasing Natal 2.0. The first version sounds crappier and crappier the more we hear about it!

 

[Rolf N]

Notes on Project Natal:
http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/03/notes_on_project_natal.html

Mattrick said the response from consumers in testing of Project Natal has been "off the charts."

Off in which direction?

This Mattrick guy still has a ways to learn. When Peter Moore was astroturfing the HD-DVD addon, at least he used solid language, i.e. "beyond".

 

[NeoTechni]

I'd imagine Move will cost less than Wiimotes, given Wiimote has an infrared camera and does image processing internally. Move uses PSeye, 1 camera for all the Moves, and image processing is done by the PS3.

And the subcontroller will cost a bit more than nunchucks, since they are wireless and have a battery.

I'd imagine the 2 combined would cost slightly less than a wiimote+nunchuck, a bluetooth module+battery seem cheaper than an infrared camera and image processor.

I don't believe that 4 total devices limit. Sony would have to go out of their way to enforce that. PS3 allows 7 devices. I'd imagine they'd let you connect as many devices as you could fit. Though 4 max Moves due to the tracking API. It should let you do 3 or 4 moves, and 3 subs fine.

 

[patsu]

Hmm... at the negativity. The system should be usable within reasonable bounds. I can't see why 2 meter would be a problem. Did they explain in more details ?