Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[Refreshment]

Also had an idea for movement in a game that uses 2 wands like the robot demo. Simply use the pointer functionality and use trigger to move in direction of pointer like Heavy Rain. Could work well in an slower paced oblivion type game. Feel like posting up on playtations new share site. wil wait until im sober tho lol

Wouldnt be a problem since thats have been done. IIRC at some point StarFox for Gamecube handled movement that way. Lateral movement or strafing would be tricky, might be achieved by a rotational movement of the wand.

Found a page with the mayority of information i needed. Altough it doesnt answer the use of sensors or not in the subcontroller. For those that might be interested:

http://us.playstation.com/ps3/access...cph-98061.html

 

[patsu]

Possibly may be you simply got used to it.

Actually, that's from people's account. I haven't tried it at all. Here's Peter Moore's comment:
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/fi...062/interview_ea_sports_president_peter_moore

Moore: I certainly played Tennis a lot up in Vancouver with the Wii Motion Dongle attached and in simplistic terms if you think about the normal movement you get with the Wii remote, you know you can sit on your couch and flick your wrist and you get the same reaction as if you stand up and do a full swing playing golf or tennis. What the Wii Motion plus allows you to do is do a true authentic sports motion. When you swing the racquet and you bring it back for an overhead lob or smash, then that is reflected. The amount of sensitivity that now brings allows true sports motion. It’s the same with golf. What you can do with Wii Motion Plus is truly bring it back, swing through the club and then it allows you to hit draws, fades and hooks. The really astute golfer can address the ball as he or she would in a real golf game. While the game will play as well as any other game with the current Wii remote, when you get it with the motion plus device, it becomes spectacular. I’ve hit spins, lobs and drop shots playing Tennis in Vancouver.

I tried Wii Sports Resort for the first time this afternoon. It's my pick up and go experience. There is no time to "get used to it". I think the Table Tennis game translated my arm twisting really well. There was no perceived lag at all. I came away solidly impressed. Also tried Basket Ball, Frisbee, they all felt natural and intuitive.

 

[patsu]

No time to post. Need to play Carcassonne with kid , but here's a "Minority Report" video from the Engadget show:

(Stolen from GAF again)

EDIT: The not-so-good news is "I wrote it last night". That may imply that Sony has not started serious work on UI improvement for Move and XMB yet (We only saw 1 or 2 gestures for XMB in GDC 2010).

EDIT 2: The "Oh so true" comment was "Why don't you guys make the game ?". ^_^

They simply, absolutely must use this for their Photo app in XMB.
[size=-2]... and a Dart Jack Tretton mini-game[/size]

May be possible to approximate this using Wiimote+ and to some degree, Natal also. If someone deploy something similar, they will easily outdo Sony's tech demo, which is unavailable to consumers to play.

 

[Crossbar]

I'll believe it when I see the price tag (mainly because they have to sustain the free online service too, at this point anyway). CE manufacturers have this habit of getting strung by hard numbers. It is in their DNA to obey those accounting sheets (because a mistake could cost the entire company). For better or worse, Kutaragi is a very rare exception.

If your concern that Sony may have to sell a move bundle at a loss, I don´t think that´s an issue really. You cannot really look at the price of the standalone PSEye and the DS3 to form an opinion of how much a Move bundle would cost. They are both high margin products at the current price point.

The standalone PSEye will likely keep its price and the standalone price of the Move wand will likely be about the same as the DS3, but the introduction bundle with a game will probably not cost that much more than a standalone Move Wand. Sony also promised bundles with just a game and a Move wand, they will probably not cost much more than a single wand either.

 

[patsu]

Not necessarily at a loss, but they may want to make more money to cover for on-going R&D, free online gaming, base PS3 hardware losses, etc. It's hard to predict which route Sony will take right now. It's best to wait for official information. Sometimes/very often in a large organization, the finance people (bean counters) and the lawyers have more power than the CEO and the marketing VeePees.

I am not saying it will definitely be expensive, but I don't think it will be automatically cheap either. Someone may need to put up a hard fight internally.

 

[Crossbar]

Not necessarily at a loss, but they may want to make more money to cover for on-going R&D, free online gaming, base PS3 hardware losses, etc. It's hard to predict which route Sony will take right now. It's best to wait for official information. Sometimes/very often in a large organization, the finance people (bean counters) and the lawyers have more power than the CEO and the marketing folks.

I am not saying it will definitely be expensive, but I don't think it will be automatically cheap either. Someone may need to put up a hard fight internally.

I get your point, but I have some hope that Kaz knows that they need to go full throttle for the casual market this fall. MS has been doing it for 1.5 years ever since the Arcade hit $199 and soon Nintendo will bring the Wii HD not to mention Natal which comes this year! This is pretty much the best window of opportunity there is for the PS3 to make a bold move (no pun intended). I can totally understand that they really wanted to bring out Move already this spring but obviously it didn´t work out.

My largest concern is that Sony will not make Move a part of every PS3 SKU at start, I think would really help a fast uptake. I am pretty convinced that MS is planning that, the removal of the CPU in Natal points that way and I think it is a smart move.

 

[patsu]

Hard to say... Sony may choose to focus on the core gamers while Nintendo and MS fight it out. The third party developers will chase their own audiences on all 3 platforms.

Anyway, here's an interesting interface using gloves:

I hope Sony and others abstract the next gen controller interface so that we can try other equally/more capable controllers with new drivers.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No time to post. Need to play Carcassonne with kid , but here's a "Minority Report" video from the Engadget show:

That was superb. I loved the intimate, informal presentation style too, much more engaging then the huge stage demos we have. What's working so well is that the controller can so readily become a virtual device. The camera example really highlighted this. If you want a virtual camera to shoot a virtual movie in your virtual world, the Move gives you a solid interface which is perfectly mapped to your existing knowledge, so it just works. Controllerless interfaces are going to be at a disadvantage in that respect. You could probably track an arm as well to get a camera direction, but it wouldn't be the same as holding a virtual camera. Same with a torch or flag or sword.

Looking at the options now, at the moment I'm thinking the motion controller interface is overall the more flexible and natural interface rather than controllerless. We'll see how that opinion changes onthe next round of Natal reveals.

Anyway, here's an interesting interface using gloves:

Was that invented for evil masterminds and secret superhero lairs?

 

[Nesh]

Hard to say... Sony may choose to focus on the core gamers while Nintendo and MS fight it out. The third party developers will chase their own audiences on all 3 platforms.

Anyway, here's an interesting interface using gloves:

I hope Sony and others abstract the next gen controller interface so that we can try other equally/more capable controllers with new drivers.

Sony had this patented some years ago but it disappeared from the patent page. I would have loved to see something like that on the PS3 or the next Playstation. I have no idea what happened to it though

 

[patsu]

Was that invented for evil masterminds and secret superhero lairs?

No... the demonstrator's underwear would be on the outside if true. It's probably an R&D institution.

Sony had this patented some years ago but it disappeared from the patent page. I would have loved to see something like that on the PS3 or the next Playstation. I have no idea what happened to it though

Dr. Marks is one of the few in the gaming industry who has "tried it all". He would be the most fitted to do this.

Seriously, I think they need to introduce an alternative XMB user experiences. The Photo app can be made more useful (together with network file system access). The Playstation Home spaces and the new worldmap is primed for this too. Life with Playstation navigation, together with the game trailers channel, can be made more interesting (effective in upselling). It's not good enough to tell the users to wait patiently. Look at Steve Jobs, the first thing he showcased when he returned to Apple was a _functional_ Aqua UI.

The above apps don't have to be there all at launch, but a working new UI should be there day 1.

The problem with the tech demos is that most require two motion controllers, when it only ships with one.

The basic/core apps and games will be optimized for only one controller. e.g., for the Minority Report UI, it is possible to do it with one controller just like we only use one mouse for desktop and windows management.

 

[Arwin]

The whole Engadget show should be up soon, but I found this in the comments thread, which contains the PS Move part:

http://www.vimeo.com/10319859

 

[thop]

I'm not impressed yet. Potential is good, but Sony is not in the business of tech demos.

 

[AzBat]

I was impressed. The interface was pretty cool & definitely had a neat futuristic feel. But still hate the bulb & camera requirement. The former is chessy & childish looking. The latter just makes the whole system too expensive. Although I'm excited about Natal, I would have been more excited if MS had done something closer to the Wii control, but as accurate as the Move. Not sure they can pull off something that cool without buttons.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

The latter just makes the whole system too expensive.

It's actually camera plus mic array.

I don't think PSEye costs a whole lot though. I consider it a worthwhile purchase since it enables additional applications for me (e.g., Voice chat when I'm too lazy to put on headset, video conferencing with other PS3 friends in the living room, powered Eye of Judgment).

I am sure more can be done if Sony and partners put their soul and mind to it.

As for the bulb, they just need to think of a few key apps to highlight its usefulness and people will understand. I vote for a Kratos ferrying and fighting with an Olympian Torch mini-game.

EDIT:
Personally, I am still very very keen on the bulb's applications without turning on the TV, or even the PS3.

Besides music visualization with the color light, I think some sort of XMB message alert, ringer and other alarm would be cool. e.g., The bulb can flash or light up in different colors if russo121 sent me a KZ2 invite while I was not looking at the screen. Or when someone in Home "tap" me while my avatar was sleeping. Or when someone tried to video conference me when my PS3 is off. I think many of us use the PS3 for listening to music and other media tasks. Little things like these are very helpful and improve community building.

 

[AzBat]

It's actually camera plus mic array.

I don't think PSEye costs a whole lot though.

The camera could come with a built-in bottle opener for all I care. It's still going to be more expensive than the Wii sensor bar. And since it doesn't come with the system it's an extra component that makes the system too expensive. One thing going for Natal is you only need the one device.

As for the lightbulb, you can spin it however you want, but it still dorky looking & unnecessary.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

The Wiimote has an inexpensive IR camera inside. One for every Wiimote, plus a sensor bar. The PS Move has a regular web camera outside, one for each PS3 to track 2-4 controller bulbs.

The camera can do facial recognition, head tracking, voice recognition, body tracking today; stuff that Natal wants to do (and improve on) in the future. Unless you think all these features are a waste of time. I don't see why the camera is wasteful.

As for the lightbulb, you can spin it however you want, but it still dorky looking & unnecessary.

I was not spinning though. As long as it's useful, people will come to appreciate it. That doesn't mean everyone has to like it. ^_^

 

[NeoTechni]

And since it doesn't come with the system it's an extra component that makes the system too expensive.

Sony said it's coming with the system later on
Wii fit cost more than Move will, it sold fine.

As for the lightbulb, you can spin it however you want, but it still dorky looking & unnecessary.

No, it is necessary. It provides a tracking position viewable from any angle, solving wiis problem of the sensor bar only working when the controllers are pointed at it. And the color lights solve the problem of determining what to track.

Just cause you think it's ugly doesn't mean it's unnecessary, it's there for a reason.

 

[patsu]

Wii fit cost more than Move will, it sold fine.

Yes... but Wii Fit addressed an unserved need from the get go, PS Move may not initially. This may (will) be a problem for PS Move.

 

[AzBat]

The Wiimote has an inexpensive IR camera inside. One for every Wiimote, plus a sensor bar. The PS Move has a regular web camera outside, one for each PS3 to track 2-4 controller bulbs.

The camera can do facial recognition, head tracking, voice recognition, body tracking today; stuff that Natal wants to do (and improve on) in the future. Unless you think all these features are a waste of time. I don't see why the camera is wasteful.

For the purpose of doing motion controlling the Wii has shown that a cheap sensor bar will work. The cost of the Wii Remote plus the sensor bar is more likely to cost less than the PS3 Move plus PS Eye. For one player that difference may not be such a big barrier, but start adding more players and you can see how expensive it could be even compared to the Wii.

See my track record, the kind of motion controlling I was looking forward to was something like Wii or the Gametrak Freedom, but without a sensor of any kind. The only thing that came that close was the Motus Darwin, but it disappeared into obscurity. Natal is ok since its just one device, but again I wanted something in my hand. The extra stuff that Natal & PSEye bring are neat and all but they seem like they were bolted on to give added value to the motion system.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

No, it is necessary. It provides a tracking position viewable from any angle, solving wiis problem of the sensor bar only working when the controllers are pointed at it. And the color lights solve the problem of determining what to track.

Just cause you think it's ugly doesn't mean it's unnecessary, it's there for a reason.

I know full well that it's necessary from a technical standpoint for Sony's method. I just meant it's unnecessary from a game-play or user standpoint. I want the motion tracking to be able to do everything the Move can do without the camera or light-bulb.

Tommy McClain