Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[tha_con]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQjfhg2WKPQ

I wonder if this is just a calibration issue? Maybe the kids legs are just too low for the system to account for?

Either way, I really hope Microsoft has some great stuff to show for E3, because it's been almost a year and I'm still seeing Ricochet and nothing else.

 

[Nesh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQjfhg2WKPQ

I wonder if this is just a calibration issue? Maybe the kids legs are just too low for the system to account for?

Either way, I really hope Microsoft has some great stuff to show for E3, because it's been almost a year and I'm still seeing Ricochet and nothing else.

Heh that was funny. It tried to fit the model's silhouete to the small body of the kid.

I think it becomes an issue for this particular game when there are two players.

The thing is assuming there is just one player it tries to make the player fill the screen accordingly so that he can hit all balls on screen (not too short nor too high).
So if its a kid calibration will "enlarge" it or if it is someone "gugantic" it will "shrink" him. The size of the model is always the same on screen.

Since there are two people of very different proportions, either the camera is confused and reads the adult correctly and cant fit the silhouette correctly on the short guy so that both are displayed on same size. or the capability of the camera is more advanced but calibration was not done correctly.

The response rate seems very good though

 

[tha_con]

Heh that was funny. It tried to fit the model's silhouete to the small body of the kid.

I think it becomes an issue for this particular game when there are two players.

The thing is assuming there is just one player it tries to make the player fill the screen accordingly so that he can hit all balls on screen (not too short nor too high).
So if its a kid calibration will "enlarge" it or if it is someone "gugantic" it will "shrink" him. The size of the model is always the same on screen.

Since there are two people of very different proportions, either the camera is confused and reads the adult correctly and cant fit the silhouette correctly on the short guy so that both are displayed on same size. or the capability of the camera is more advanced but calibration was not done correctly.

The response rate seems very good though

Response time looked great for something this simple, so I'm very optimistic about that.

Just worried, I can't imagine MS hasn't done focus tests with people of all shapes and sizes in various combinations.

 

[rabidrabbit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQjfhg2WKPQ

I wonder if this is just a calibration issue? Maybe the kids legs are just too low for the system to account for?

Either way, I really hope Microsoft has some great stuff to show for E3, because it's been almost a year and I'm still seeing Ricochet and nothing else.

Looks like the kid is doing some breakdancing moves
True, the ricochet demo is really getting old, it didn't look good the first time they showed it, and it still doesn't look good or interesting.
Guess they chose it as their no. 1 demo because it is easy to see what Natal is about, but why so many balls that the whole game looks like just mindless flailing.

 

[Crossbar]

Interesting interview with Shuhei Yoshida.

The software teams have been working with the technology since the beginning of last year. We’ve tried many different technologies, but it was at the beginning of last year that we decided to go with this optical technology. We’ve put many years of R&D into it, from EyeToy to PlayStation Eye, along with the sensors in the controllers, which are more advanced than what we have in Sixaxis.

I wonder what other options they were evaluating in parallel?

Nintendo had smashed TVs at Wii’s launch – how are you guarding against similar issues when Move arrives?
What’s good about the sphere is that it’s very, very robust. It’s much more robust in terms of protection for the controller and people around it because it’s soft. So we don’t need a sleeve.

What sort of resources do you currently have dedicated to Move within SCE?
We have more than 20 teams working on Move.

....

None of the games presented so far feels absolutely novel – is it a case now of presenting the broadly familiar to acquaint the public with Move before presenting more overtly different games?
We are working on variety of games, and it tends to be the case that more familiar concepts progress quicker than novel ones. We have some exciting announcements still to come and hopefully they will help answer your question.

Will you be forging new game types using Move in the way Nintendo has with Wii?
We strive to do so. We have been deeply involved in the development of Move itself, by providing ideas, prototype games and feedback to SCEI and SCEA R&D – Rick Marks’ group who worked on the software system. It is our responsibility to show what Move can do and provide reference to third parties. However, thirdparty developers have been working on Wii games for some time, and it may be the case that ideas they had that could not be achieved on Wii could be accomplished by Move because of our technology and features. If this is the case, then I am sure we will see great ideas coming from thirdparty developers as well.

 

[liolio]

Looks like the kid is doing some breakdancing moves
True, the ricochet demo is really getting old, it didn't look good the first time they showed it, and it still doesn't look good or interesting.
Guess they chose it as their no. 1 demo because it is easy to see what Natal is about, but why so many balls that the whole game looks like just mindless flailing.

It's getting old and still not perfect anyway the kid seems literally absorbed if that any clue MS may be on to something.

 

[Arwin]

Interesting interview with Shuhei Yoshida.

Thanks!

I also like these comments:

What sort of resources do you currently have dedicated to Move within SCE?
We have more than 20 teams working on Move.

What’s the split of your focus between making Move an effort to appeal to a wider consumer base, and about making traditional games work in a different way?
I would say 50:50.

 

[Delta9]

Looks like the kid is doing some breakdancing moves

Micheal Jackson game coming.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Micheal Jackson game coming.

WOW!!!!

That's just.... well... bad...

I'm becoming less and less convinced that Microsoft will be able to tighten this thing up so that it's accurate with a large enough variation in the persons being tracked.

As much of the "it's still early yet!" claims i hear on internet forums, i'd have thought that they would have the accuracy sorted by now, especially given that the thing will release in probably 6-8 months.

I also echo the sentiment of those who are tired of MS showing this shallow-looking dodgeball game... they really need to show some innovative stuff.

 

[Nesh]

WOW!!!!

That's just.... well... bad...

I'm becoming less and less convinced that Microsoft will be able to tighten this thing up so that it's accurate with a large enough variation in the persons being tracked.

As much of the "it's still early yet!" claims i hear on internet forums, i'd have thought that they would have the accuracy sorted by now, especially given that the thing will release in probably 6-8 months.

I also echo the sentiment of those who are tired of MS showing this shallow-looking dodgeball game... they really need to show some innovative stuff.

They are holding the good stuff at E3
Thats the good strategy if you want to impress when and where it matters the most

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

They are holding the good stuff at E3
Thats the good strategy if you want to impress when and where it matters the most

Set the bar really low, so anything will impress. That IS a decent strategy.

 

[zed]

As much of the "it's still early yet!" claims i hear on internet forums, i'd have thought that they would have the accuracy sorted by now, especially given that the thing will release in probably 6-8 months

Its not the accuracy thats most worrying but the fact is theyre still showing the body positions in physically impossible places (if u see some videos), remember "bang there is it" OK you could excuse that since it was the first public showing, teething problems and all that, but to still have these basic issues 6+ months later speaks of incompetent programming, my moneys on it not seeing the light of day this year.

 

[Nesh]

Set the bar really low, so anything will impress. That IS a decent strategy.

Not exactly what I was thinking. But close.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Its not the accuracy thats most worrying but the fact is theyre still showing the body positions in physically impossible places (if u see some videos), remember "bang there is it" OK you could excuse that since it was the first public showing, teething problems and all that, but to still have these basic issues 6+ months later speaks of incompetent programming, my moneys on it not seeing the light of day this year.

It's definitely disconcerting the amount of problems that become visible. In addition, E3's showing is closed doors from the sound of it...

Microsoft has said that it will not allow video or photography at its "technology-free" pre-E3 Project Natal showcase, taking place on the Sunday before the big event.
...
The Sunday night event is separate from Microsoft's E3 show on Monday June 14, and is intended to showcase the universal appeal of Project Natal at the 10,000 capacity Galen Centre in Los Angeles.

Why no video? Will they not have a show-floor experience at E3, in which case why deny cameras 2 days earlier?

 

[patsu]

There are many components in Natal. What we are seeing here is only the skeleton tracking game. There will be games tailored to suit the quirks of the technology. Even if it's lagging, as long as the user is engrossed in the game (because it's fascinating or fun), it doesn't really matter whether third party observe a severe lag.

The developer should be able to implement other forms of tracking (e.g., hand gestures only). These alternate approaches should be faster and more accurate than full body tracking.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's not the lagging that's worrisome; Molyneux reported big improvements I believe. My concern is that the skeleton tracking is prone to errors. eg. Consider the above boy-tracking results applied to any other game. Aiming, movement, actions would all be all over the place! Clearly the boy can enjoy himself with this game and probably laughs at the crazy avatar antics, but it's not portraying the input system as robust and reliable, which any input systems need to be. This problem was an early-days glitch when first shown, but this far on one wonders where the errors are coming from and if they'll be solvable to a good degree or need some hack (desensitising, limiting input rate or resolution or something??). Otherwise would you really trust Natal to track where you're aiming or where you have your virtual racquet if at some point it's going to suddenly twist you around behind your back?

 

[patsu]

I think for your example above, the gamer will be using the traditional controller. Natal will only be used for auxiliary tasks.

If they are using Natal to control aiming, movement and special actions, then the game will be forgiving enough to accommodate Natal's accuracy -- just like how Nintendo adapted WiiSports to fit Wiimote's lack of gyro.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Set the bar really low, so anything will impress. That IS a decent strategy.

Hope you're just being sarcastic

It seems the problem with this ricochet game (and probably also other similar games) is that the player needs to play legs and arms apart, otherwise the Natal gets confused and loses track.
See, in the controlled demonstrations (where a MS rep was playing) the player always stands astride, legs and arms apart, but the kid is not, that throws the Natals recognition completely off in the lower and sometimes upper body region.

MS seriously need to polish their smoke and mirrors for E3.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think for your example above, the gamer will be using the traditional controller. Natal will only be used for auxiliary tasks.

If they are using Natal to control aiming, movement and special actions, then the game will be forgiving enough to accommodate Natal's accuracy -- just like how Nintendo adapted WiiSports to fit Wiimote's lack of gyro.

Hmmm...give me an example of a Natal game where hands flying behind backs and bodies getting stretched and shrunk and leg placement all over the shop won't be an issue.

 

[patsu]

Volley ball ? Casual bowling, virtual jogging, deep sea fishing may be possible too.