Official GT5 discussion thread

[Arwin]

Maybe, but it could hurt its reputation as an AAA title at the very least.

Totally addicted myself though. This is without a doubt the best GT so far, and even though I can point to a number of deficies or things that make me think ... huh ... there is so much about this game that is right, that I'm not complaining at all.

Currently in my last race for the Japanese championship on Expert (and no, I haven't nearly done all amateur or pro events yet!), in a Impresza Sedan WRX STi '10 that I have just won the intermediate rally special events with (so exactly 345hp, one level weight reduction, soft sports tires) and I'm having a blast - it's not too stressful, but at best I've beaten the AI by 6 seconds, and the slightest mistake means they are all over me again.

This is also the first race that is showing me my tires overheating if I take turns too violently, and it's helping me to improve my lines.

 

[tha_con]

Well I hope you are right and that these reviews wont affect the buying behavior. There are some awfully misinforming reviews out there.

That's to be expected with a game of this size though. I mean, how many reviews for other enormous games are misinformed? It's pretty common with the "quality" of "journalists" out there.

 

[Nesh]

I can also heartily recommend the Wheel Stand Pro.
Bought it for my Driving Force GT, as my coffee table is too low for comfortable driving.
It's very stable, well made and easily folded for storage. The adjustability is very good too.
I bought it direct from manufacturer, the delivery was very fast (4 week-days) and price very reasonable (€109 delivered to door).
I'd say the jump to a decent stand was almost as big as the jump from pad to wheel.

There doesn't seem to be many dealers for the stand, but buying direct seems to be very reliable and fast.

http://www.wheelstandpro.com/

Ok going to order it from there then. Thanks

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Eh, I don't think it backfired at all. The game is still going to sell amazingly well. The only folks those reviews are really going to matter to is the 'core' forum goers and folks who want to find things to talk about. Mainstream folks know about IGN and GameInformer. That's really all they'll care about, even if they do really give a damn about that.

You're saying GT5 won't lose any sales whatsoever on account of people who have experienced or witnessed high levels of damage etc. in other racers hearing that GT5 hasn't got very good damage at all and so having a more muted impression of it? I certainly do. I believe most people don't go out of their way to get fully informed opinions, trusting on first appearances from their preferred information sources. If the Daily Mail says immigrants are stealing everyone's jobs, the Daily Mail readers will believe that without researching further. And if IGN says damage in GT5 is very limited, Joe Gamer is going to believe that.

It's certainly a bad marketing move on PD's/Sony's part to have valued features hidden inside the game instead of well broadcast. They should have put out a load more trailers covering the details that Joe Gamer wants to hear. Underselling your product is never good, and unless marketing has no influence on sales, underselling will result in poorer performance than if a product is strongly sold.

 

[tha_con]

You're saying GT5 won't lose any sales whatsoever on account of people who have experienced or witnessed high levels of damage etc. in other racers hearing that GT5 hasn't got very good damage at all and so having a more muted impression of it? I certainly do. I believe most people don't go out of their way to get fully informed opinions, trusting on first appearances from their preferred information sources. If the Daily Mail says immigrants are stealing everyone's jobs, the Daily Mail readers will believe that without researching further. And if IGN says damage in GT5 is very limited, Joe Gamer is going to believe that.

It's certainly a bad marketing move on PD's/Sony's part to have valued features hidden inside the game instead of well broadcast. They should have put out a load more trailers covering the details that Joe Gamer wants to hear. Underselling your product is never good, and unless marketing has no influence on sales, underselling will result in poorer performance than if a product is strongly sold.

You'd be wrong. Call of Duty sold millions of copies, mostly to people who knew nothing more than it was another Call of Duty game. The same goes for GT5. People will buy it because it's Gran Turismo, not because they've spent hours researching it. The number of sales that could be lost will be minimal. Afterall, Uncharted 2 blew the pants off of pretty much every game in 2009 critically, but it didn't explode in sales

 

[bRoNx]

You'd be wrong. Call of Duty sold millions of copies, mostly to people who knew nothing more than it was another Call of Duty game. The same goes for GT5. People will buy it because it's Gran Turismo, not because they've spent hours researching it. The number of sales that could be lost will be minimal. Afterall, Uncharted 2 blew the pants off of pretty much every game in 2009 critically, but it didn't explode in sales

Totally agree, purely because I love the Uncharted comparison. Even the original game was praised in all corners of the earth, yet there were no records broken when Uncharted 2 came out. So really, it's not all about what they read or hear.

On another point, I can't think of any company that does marketing as good as SONY, yet they seem to drop the ball with their games. I watch a lot of sports and wrestling, but have yet to catch a GT5 commercial during those times. What's up with that?

 

[(((interference)))]

You'd be wrong. Call of Duty sold millions of copies, mostly to people who knew nothing more than it was another Call of Duty game. The same goes for GT5. People will buy it because it's Gran Turismo, not because they've spent hours researching it. The number of sales that could be lost will be minimal. Afterall, Uncharted 2 blew the pants off of pretty much every game in 2009 critically, but it didn't explode in sales

.

Actually, a couple of PS3 owners I know were turned off by the mixed reviews, I know at least one guy who bought it and sold it the next day.

They all wanted to be astounded after waiting 5 years and instead faced terrible load times (with annoying menus), non existent damage modelling (at early levels) then of course there is the issue of cars and tracks imported from GT4, weather effects etc.

So there are definitely going to be some lost sales due to people having no idea that features are not missing but simply hidden deeper in the game.

 

[tha_con]

Actually, a couple of PS3 owners I know were turned off by the mixed reviews, I know at least one guy who bought it and sold it the next day.

They all wanted to be astounded after waiting 5 years and instead faced terrible load times (with annoying menus), non existent damage modelling (at early levels) then of course there is the issue of cars and tracks imported from GT4, weather effects etc.

So there are definitely going to be some lost sales due to people having no idea that features are not missing but simply hidden deeper in the game.

The reality is though, that these are the exact same people who did the exact same thing for GT4. They came in looking for damage, online play, or the new popular "car mods" in NFS games, etc.

None of this is going to hurt GT5 because there is still that user base there. The rumored numbers going around right now are 1.8 million for the first week of sales WW, which is fantastic for them considering the astounding legs that the GT series has proven it has.

 

[corduroygt]

Why can't "damage" be an assist like "Active Steering" with settings off. mild and full? At higher levels they could have made it impossible to turn it off.

 

[-tkf-]

Actually, a couple of PS3 owners I know were turned off by the mixed reviews, I know at least one guy who bought it and sold it the next day.

They all wanted to be astounded after waiting 5 years and instead faced terrible load times (with annoying menus), non existent damage modelling (at early levels) then of course there is the issue of cars and tracks imported from GT4, weather effects etc.

So there are definitely going to be some lost sales due to people having no idea that features are not missing but simply hidden deeper in the game.

The game didn´t stand a chance in his hands.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I can kind of understand why at lower levels there is limited damage modelling, or no damage at all.
Traditionally GT games have had no damage, and punished very little for collisions, if you came to GT5 with full damage on from the beginning that could be a shock to old fans and too difficult for newcomers.
I agree they should have made full damage an option from the beginning, if not in GT mode, why not in arcade mode in hard difficulty setting, or an option in online races.
If indeed full damage comes into play until level 40, a significant amount of people might never see it, and most reviewers certainly.
Then again, if one sees GT5 as a car rpg, you don't get to see all the features in a normal rpg from the beginning either, and that gives you an incentive to keep playing.

Speaking of graphics and performance, I've yet to see those very pixellated windscreen wipers that were shown in some you-tube videos prior launch, but the shadows are a bit disappointing from some angles. Also the rain in windscreen is way too pronounced, and looks more like wet snow than rain.
Coming from GT3 and GT4, the tearing and occasional dips in framerate were a bit of a shock too. I've come to expect noting but perfection from PD, and these graphical imperfections seemed more out of place in GT5 than they would in some lesser game.
The day to night transition and effects do look amazing,a nd give a whole new feel to racing the longer tracks.
The relative lack of Premium cars is a bit of a let down as well, initially it feels that there's less cars and much less manufacturers than in GT4, as the standard cars are in the Used Cars Dealerships, which updates itself regularly, so it seems you never really have that much to choose from. Personally I tend to stick with the Premium Cars, but not every car needed for specific class is available there, so you need to buy a standard car every now and then (if you don't receive one from some race). Fortunately the standard cars seem to have just as good physics, so really only the replays are affected. I use the bumper cam in driving, so in car view is not much use to me, but they are nice to view though.
I'm sure there'll be downloadable premium cars in the future, but they'll likely cost extra.
There's also some tracks I miss from previous GT's (Seattle circuit for example), hope they'll be made available from PSN (or free update, thank you) later.

Still, GT5 is definitely now up there in top 3, among MGS4 and Uncharted 2.
Good job Kazunori Yamauchi and team! I've been this addicted to a game since Uncharted 2.

 

[(((interference)))]

The reality is though, that these are the exact same people who did the exact same thing for GT4. They came in looking for damage, online play, or the new popular "car mods" in NFS games, etc.

None of this is going to hurt GT5 because there is still that user base there. The rumored numbers going around right now are 1.8 million for the first week of sales WW, which is fantastic for them considering the astounding legs that the GT series has proven it has.

Of course the GT hardcore fans will still buy the game regardless, but as Shifty said, more casual players with an interest in the game may be turned off by the apparent lack of features and lack of polish.

The game didn´t stand a chance in his hands.

No, it didn't, that's the point - here is someone who has not been avidly reading every GT5 preview and was just going by the buzz and the strength of the franchise .

Like a few people he expected GT5 to be the greatest driving game ever and his first experience with the game was disappointing and reading an online review (such as IGN) aor hearing other people's reactions didn't help.

 

[Arwin]

They simply added damage too late in their dev cycle to integrate it properly. It was clearly never certain they'd manage to put it in, much like dynamic weather and such and it was probably too hard to rebalance the gt mode. That said they could have done something like Turn 10and give you more XP if you have it on. And like I said give more options for Arcade and online. But they can still do so.

This game will still sell great no doubt, and when I said its reputation could get damaged, I'm thinking of how the next game will be regarded.

 

[-tkf-]

Of course the GT hardcore fans will still buy the game regardless, but as Shifty said, more casual players with an interest in the game may be turned off by the apparent lack of features and lack of polish.



No, it didn't, that's the point - here is someone who has not been avidly reading every GT5 preview and was just going by the buzz and the strength of the franchise .

Like a few people he expected GT5 to be the greatest driving game ever and his first experience with the game was disappointing and reading an online review (such as IGN) aor hearing other people's reactions didn't help.

Hardcore fans? how about those that just want a great racing game? There is no better game in this genre on any platform. Most of those that nit pick this game, and that is what it is, comes with a whole other agenda than discussion GT5 or racing games. Your friend missed out.

 

[-tkf-]

They simply added damage too late in their dev cycle to integrate it properly. It was clearly never certain they'd manage to put it in, much like dynamic weather and such and it was probably too hard to rebalance the gt mode. That said they could have done something like Turn 10and give you more XP if you have it on. And like I said give more options for Arcade and online. But they can still do so.

This game will still sell great no doubt, and when I said its reputation could get damaged, I'm thinking of how the next game will be regarded.

What makes you think the damage was added late? Imho they had an idea about damamge, to some extent it really does remind me of a MORPG, it´s the endgame that opens up the real challenges and it´s in the endgame that the lasting appeal will be important. The reputation comes from those that play it, and i think most of those will be very satisfied

 

[djskribbles]

Hardcore fans? how about those that just want a great racing game? There is no better game in this genre on any platform. Most of those that nit pick this game, and that is what it is, comes with a whole other agenda than discussion GT5 or racing games. Your friend missed out.

Agreed.

 

[patsu]

Of course the GT hardcore fans will still buy the game regardless, but as Shifty said, more casual players with an interest in the game may be turned off by the apparent lack of features and lack of polish.

I don't think a casual will find GT5 lack of features. The problem is it has way too many features.

No, it didn't, that's the point - here is someone who has not been avidly reading every GT5 preview and was just going by the buzz and the strength of the franchise .

Like a few people he expected GT5 to be the greatest driving game ever and his first experience with the game was disappointing and reading an online review (such as IGN) aor hearing other people's reactions didn't help.

There will be fans lost due to the lack of polish. I doubt the rushed reviews have much impact on most fans though, especially if they continue to track forum posts, and if GT5 driving physics shine. From what I read GT5 plays rather differently, and there are lots of content in the game.

For people who don't buy this round, PD will have opportunities later to woo them with more DLC cars/tracks, improved framerate and visuals, or even dropped price (when GT5 hits Platinum).
Those who rely on reviews are on the fence. It may take a longer time to convert them.

The key thing for PD is to continue their refinement and content creation.

 

[Billy Idol]

Ok, I can understand (although I don't) that they want to give some bonus to those that go up to level 40...but why choose such a fundamental feature like damage? As a bonus for high levels they already have those great high end cars and the F1 cars - that is enough, right?

Damage is fundamental for racing (although I really think that the approach Burnout or Motorstorm does...is probably the most realistic: you hit something, typically your car is crashed...of course there is the respawn feature in those games, that make it unrealistic...but playable) and should be optional in the menus...so that I can choose no damage, mild damage or full damage!

So, if I accept that they want the game like an RPG...I admitt that it is kind of a cool idea! And good for those that go up to level 40 and get real benefit+bonus...bad for people like me who only have a very limited time to play and miss out an important feature.

But why, why didn't they guideline the reviewers? I mean, it is really unfair to say that it is only reviewers fault, when they get a mammoth game like GT5 48 hours before release or something like this, often with a fixed deadline for the review! I have the feeling, that a lot of reviewers get automatically pissed when they get this articifial pressure and it is certainly not a good start...factoring in that each review in the world is kind of subjective, negative pressure does not help.

On the other hand, I think that reviewers do have some kind of responsibility and some kind of standards for their work...and factoring this in, some GT5 reviews are a brutal desaster and kind of a shame.

Polyphony should react.

 

[Billy Idol]

@Patsu: I played arcade races in 3D as I wanted to check out a Ferrari, and I did a Kart race. But nothing fancy yet...I need to unlock the cool stuff, and then see.

But it is true, 3D seems to be a well made and thought out mode in this game and increases the value of the overall package, IMO.

Thanks again to Quaz for the setup, but I wonder why Polyphony did not include some kind of assist to properly setup the 3D...I guess a lot of people miss out the real 3D because I thought as well at the beginning that standard setup should be a good start and kind of good setting!

So, if someone can give me now a guidline with the title "How to get a F1 car in 30 minutes"...would be cool

 

[patsu]

I thought the next patch will enable damage for all levels ?