Official February 20, 2013 Playstation event

[RobertR1]

I'm more confident in Sony's online going into next gen seeing in that they finally figured out the importance of a wired headset with each unit sold.

That is a big plus.

Pros:
Wired headset
Very solid specs
Streaming and drop in/assistance

Cons:
Controller
Poor "me too" attempt at casuals

Unknowns:
Price
Pay wall for online
Actual Online services
New UI

Funny:
Apologizing for the PS3

 

[(((interference)))]

Does anyone else think the new controller is pretty ugly?

It's trying to be to continuous with the DualShock (which dates back to 1997), they should just ditch the DS aesthetic and come up with a new design that better incorporates the added elements they have this time - will probably be more ergonomic as well

 

[babcat]

The specs of this system are NOT solid or good, except for the 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM.

The CPU and GPU are both weak.

 

[wco81]

So the RAM/bandwidth advantage should support better-quality assets than the rumored Durango specs.

But in practice, mayve multi platform developers target the lower (not the lowest) common denominator, so that games will look pretty much the same?

 

[babcat]

By the way...

I consider myself a "classic" gamer. I don't care much about online gaming or motion sensing. I also do NOT want a camera.

All I care about is having a regular controller and the best graphics possible.

I wish they would have spent every dime they designated for the camera, controller, and motion sensor on the GPU/CPU.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

But in practice, mayve multi platform developers target the lower (not the lowest) common denominator, so that games will look pretty much the same?

Yeah, it's probably the case. It would be exceptionally complicated to use higher res textures (4 times the memory cost) or more polygons (modelers would have to build and UV map and bake two versions of the asset) to take advantage of more RAM.

I'd rather expect PS4 to use a lot of its memory for recording gameplay videos and such. Most games will stick to the 5GB rumored to be available on the new Xbox; I don't think Sony would free up 6-7GB just for its first party devs, they'll probably use the extra memory for system features too.

 

[Ninjaprime]

What I'm most curious about now is how big and how hot this SoC is...

Looking at Trinity for example, you have the same GPU clock, but the PS4 chip has 3 times the CUs, 4 times the ROPs, 3 times the texture units. The top of the line Trinity is a 100 watt part and measures 246mm^2. Now, on the CPU side, with Jag cores instead of Piledriver, they will save some power and space, but I would guess the hottest and largest part of the APU is the GPU side, so I wonder what the power and die size are going to be like.

If we guess the CPU power at 40W and the GPU at 60W for Trinity, for example, the raw numbers put you at 180W for just the GPU on PS4. That obviously can't be right. Now, 8 Jag cores probably aren't going to be more than about 20W, so thats some wattage opened up for the GPU side, and they probably will only be about 30-40mm^2 or so, so you're gaining some die size there, but not 3x. Eyeballing the Trinity die, I'd peg the CPU side at about 80mm^2 or so. So that gives you 40-50mm^2 more for the GPU side, but the Trinity GPU being 120mm^2 or so of the die, that doesn't even give you an extra 50% of the Trinity GPU.

Unless there some kind of magic voodoo going on here, I can't see them getting below 400mm^2 and 150W, which will make for some interesting cooling challeneges and some expensive dies. Heat piped cooling with some good fans are going to probably be required. I fully expect the price to be $550-$600.

Edit: Don't forget twice as many memory controllers and GDDR controllers instead of DDR3, which adds even more to the mix.

 

[Ninjaprime]

Sure there might be 90 million PCs, but how much of them have a graphics card with GDDR5 memory?

Not to mention tablets or smart phones, they are using pretty basic parts because of the very limited battery capacity, form factor, and retail prices.

I doubt that GDDR5 equipped video cards could sell more than, say, 5-10 million units at this time. An order from a console vendor with 60-100 million units will stand out, no doubt about that.

They aren't going to order than many though. I don't think they plan to order 6-8 years of consoles all at once.

The initial order is probably 2-3 million units worth.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Caught up on some of the things I missed. Not sure what to think of Killzone. The actual gameplay segment after the explosion looked pretty nice, but seemed just like more of the same. The best visuals in that demo came before the explosion, but I have a feeling that's one of those cutscenes that's recorded in-engine, but beyond real-time capability. If I'm wrong, I'll be impressed, but I'm skeptical.

UE4 tech demo was very cool, maybe the highlight of the reveal, but actual games tend to fall well short of tech-demo graphics.

To be honest, I would have rather seen more talk about Eye, OS, services and all of the things that will make the platform unique rather than a string of cutscenes, target renders and gameplay for multiplatform games. Two hours is way too long. Tell me why PS4 is going to be the best instead of showing me some Final Fantasy crap that's bound to be on Xbox as well.

I will switch to PS4 in a heartbeat if the price is right and the online is good. I have absolutely no loyalty to Xbox or my friends list there (Sorry, guys!). Right now I'm 50/50 between the two, because I don't know enough about them. This reveal really did nothing towards pushing me to the Sony side. They could have walked on stage for 5 seconds, said, "PS4 before year end," and walked off the stage. That would have been just as useful to me.

 

[specwarGP2]

They aren't going to order than many though. I don't think they plan to order 6-8 years of consoles all at once.

The initial order is probably 2-3 million units worth.

That's still a lot since each unit will have 8GB. Avg video card is 2GB?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

They aren't going to order than many though.

Yeah but that's not how their partner would look at it

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Maybe the Wii U still has a chance.

It does not... it's pretty much dead once these new consoles enter the market.

It will be lacking in graphics, it will be lacking in online features and it will be a lot slower, and the one thing going for it - the touchpad controller with remote play - has already been matched by Sony and will probably be matched by MS too.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

The best visuals in that demo came before the explosion, but I have a feeling that's one of those cutscenes that's recorded in-engine, but beyond real-time capability.

The city shots are definitely realtime, there's no switching between the scenes and there's a lot of interactivity when the player grabs the rope and gets dragged around.

It can be done graphics wise, more polygons and textures are all it takes and the system has the resources. But the gameplay is still limited to a narrow tunnel and on-rails flying.

It's also pretty much in line with what to expect from a quick port of the existing KZ engine on hardware with the confirmed specs...

 

[Inuhanyou]

No KZ2 bullshots this time. This is a confirmed launch title this year, nothing like KZ2's 4 year long wait junk

 

[AlphaWolf]

That's still a lot since each unit will have 8GB. Avg video card is 2GB?

How much do you think that matters? How high do you think the margins are on gddr5? They might get a few% knocked off, but I doubt there is a lot of room downward in ram pricing over what AMD might be paying.

 

[eastmen]

I'm of two minds here. The ps4 looks like it will finally match xbox live and maybe surpase it in some ways. But then again we are talking about xbox 360's live.

The new controller seems just like super nes controller its allways been but now has a layer of touch on it. I've never liked the original controllers as they would hurt my hand after a short period of time and this doesn't seem to help in that.

Its certainly a step up from the ps3 launch time frame when sony seemed like a chicken with no head and it seems like it already has better games than the vita does at almost a year into its life.

It looks like all around sony is doing a great job. They are ahead of Nintendo certainly and if the leaks of ms's stuff is true they may be able to stay ahead of them too.

 

[dobwal]

The official documents say that theres all 18CU's available for rendering or compute, kinda kills 14+4 imo.

Not really. 14 + 4 might be your typical setup for most devs. 8 jaguar cores arent all that impressive by themselves and werent designed to run in isolation.

 

[babybumb]

The 8GB seems just unnecessary from business pov. I really dont get the point of it even for games when current top GPUs dont go there

 

[AstoundingHolmes]

You know, while I'm not exactly thrilled with the PS4 controller, I can't help but like it a bit from this angle. It reminds me too much of Samus Aran's spaceship.

 

[eastmen]

The 8GB seems just unnecessary from business pov. I really dont get the point of it even for games when current top GPUs dont go there

My gpu has 3 gigs of ram and I have 16 gigs of ddr 3 in my computer along with ssd drives. The problem is devs are still targeting last gen consoles.

When the new generation of consoles come out graphics chips will come with even more ram and games will use more system ram. Its the way things work.

The game devs that are targeting the ps4 and xbox next will make use of that ram easily and 2-3 years into the generation will be complaining of so little ram.