Nvidia DLSS 1 and 2 antialiasing discussion *spawn*

[DavidGraham]

Anthem to feature the best implementation of DLSS to date

Bioware’s latest looter shooter has the best DLSS implementation we’ve seen to date. Not only does it run better than native 4K, it also looks sharper.

The performance difference between native 4K and 4K DLSS was 15fps in most cases and as a result of that, we were finally able to run Anthem with 60fps. As we’ve already stated, that wasn’t possible in native 4K as there were major drops below 45fps in various places.

https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/...on-to-date-comparison-screenshots-benchmarks/

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Results look good, although...

Bioware’s latest looter shooter has the best DLSS implementation we’ve seen to date. Not only does it run better than native 4K, it also looks sharper.

Isn't that a 'fault'? Why would DLSS (16x super sampled source material) look sharper unless it was trained to apply a sharpen filter?

How does one download the source image? All I can see is a windowed downsampling with no option to copy/view the original unscaled image.

 

[iroboto]

Results look good, although...
Isn't that a 'fault'? Why would DLSS (16x super sampled source material) look sharper unless it was trained to apply a sharpen filter?

How does one download the source image? All I can see is a windowed downsampling with no option to copy/view the original unscaled image.

Maybe they got the understanding wrong and it's just DLSS (AA) on 4K frame buffer, that could still give them some minor boosts to FPS, while improving the aliasing over traditional AA algorithms. Need to investigate this more.

edit: fairly confident it's just DLSS on AA upon closer examination. I think 1440p to 4K if that was DLSS upscale, we'd see perhaps an even further improvement in frame rate (it's not like we're running ray tracing on Anthem). And if I'm wrong, then damn. I really don't know.

 

[MfA]

I was just going to say "Do I look like I know what a JPEG is?" ... but taking a closer look JPEG is all you need really. DLSS, 4K ... did someone change the definition of sharp?

PS. I got the 4K imgur links with inspect element.

 

[iroboto]

I was just going to say "Do I look like I know what a JPEG is?" ... but taking a closer look JPEG is all you need really. DLSS, 4K ... did someone change the definition of sharp?

Anthem is pretty funky:
DLSS

4K

If you zoom in around the helmet on 4K you can see a crazy amount of temporal distortion that ruins the clarity.
But if you zoom in on DLSS that problem is fairly not visible (though there are other issues when I look around)

I'm not sure which one I would take. I would think the DLSS is filling in the image with better AA, but at some loss in detail here. And the author is wrong when you zoom in. DLSS is upscale, and it's clearly not sharper.

But the edges are certainly better imo.

 

[fellix]

If you zoom in around the helmet on 4K you can see a crazy amount of temporal distortion that ruins the clarity.
But if you zoom in on DLSS that problem is fairly not visible (though there are other issues when I look around)

I'm not sure which one I would take. I would think the DLSS is filling in the image with better AA, but at some loss in detail here.

The DLSS shot exhibits quite obvious ringing artifacts from the sharpening filter on top of the general loss of fine detail (the main point of UHD resolution).

 

[iroboto]

The DLSS shot exhibits quite obvious ringing artifacts from the sharpening filter on top of the general loss of fine detail (the main point of UHD resolution).

The DLSS has other issues for sure.
The game has a lot of artefacts in general however. I guess it's going to be a toss up of preference. Though with 4K, I want to see minute details, its the reason we paid a lot for it, so I'm not thinking this upscale technique is going to be paying dividends for an expensive display.

 

[MfA]

DLSS reminds me of bilateral filtering.

 

[iroboto]

DLSS reminds me of bilateral filtering.

It's way better than bilateral filtering. Bilateral is nearly full loss of every bit of detail. Perhaps good for making outlines.

 

[Kaotik]

Maybe they got the understanding wrong and it's just DLSS (AA) on 4K frame buffer, that could still give them some minor boosts to FPS, while improving the aliasing over traditional AA algorithms. Need to investigate this more.

edit: fairly confident it's just DLSS on AA upon closer examination. I think 1440p to 4K if that was DLSS upscale, we'd see perhaps an even further improvement in frame rate (it's not like we're running ray tracing on Anthem). And if I'm wrong, then damn. I really don't know.

It's not, it would hurt the performance. Jarnis from UL Benchmarks estimated the DLSS hit at same resolution to be around 10 %. Only way DLSS improves performance is by lowering the rendering resolution.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS) has been added to Anthem in a game patch released yesterday. The co-op action game from EA / Bioware will run at up to 40 per cent faster frame rates with DLSS applied, according to a new post on the GeForce Blog. Furthermore, Nvidia's deep learning neural network supercomputers are continuing to train and optimise the DLSS in Anthem, so further optimisations are promised.

https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/128900-nvidia-dlss-nvidia-highlights-come-anthem/

 

[iroboto]

https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/128900-nvidia-dlss-nvidia-highlights-come-anthem/

The frame rate benefit is the massive seller here.

 

[AlNom]

Side question: At what DPI would the two be somewhat imperceptible in motion or to most people?

 

[iroboto]

Side question: At what DPI would the two be somewhat imperceptible in motion or to most people?

In motion? Oh dear. probably 1080p to be honest. Most 4K TV sets do not have 4K motion resolution

 

[AlNom]

Let's say for computer desktop monitors, which can have varying PPI/DPI (90-140ppi?)

 

[BRiT]

Side question: At what DPI would the two be somewhat imperceptible in motion or to most people?

Over 9000!

 

[AlNom]

Over 9000!

Beyond retinAl.

 

[iroboto]

Let's say for computer desktop monitors, which can have varying PPI/DPI (90-140ppi?)

Having a high refresh rate will on your monitor will truly matter here. If you have a cheap ass monitor and it's incapable of delivering high refresh rates (or it's really dark in colour), you're not going to get the clarity in motion. 75 Hz is just not enough. Not enough to make out minute details if you're running 60fps. You're going to need the 120Hz range to really see fine clarity in motion.

Then we get into LODs etc. TLDR; It's really hard to drive 4K, I just don't see us moving past 4K for a long time. Without higher refresh rates, it really is pointless to go to anything above 4K.

 

[AlNom]

Well, I guess my point is that we're analyzing images here where it's clear that it's not very clear @ 100% on whatever screens we're using too.

The LODs for a few items are notably different (puddles/trees etc) for sure.

 

[iroboto]

Well, I guess my point is that we're analyzing images here where it's clear that it's not very clear @ 100% on whatever screens we're using too.

The LODs for a few items are notably different (puddles/trees etc) for sure.

Yea it's really splitting hairs. Most people will take the frame rate boost, that's appreciably more frame rate vs the loss on detail, especially in motion.
unless you had a lot of horsepower where native is concerned, I would DLSS.

https://www.blurbusters.com/blur-bu...000hz-displays-with-blurfree-sample-and-hold/