NPD April 2008 (Post #16)

[T Ghost]

How do you mean? They sold 2.85 Million units in 5 days!



LOL. I'll give you that one, though.

BTW last month was a 5 week month so 360 and PS3 sales went down from 52.4k and 51.4k per week to 47k and 46.8k per week and the Wii went up from 144.2k to 179k per week.

As I see, the American/Canadian consumer that accepts to pay $350/$400 for a game console AND feels attracted by a game like GTA IV have already bought their console prior to the GTA IV launch.

There's the only logical explanation I could find after looking the NPD numbers for April 08.

 

[Scott_Arm]

As I see, the American/Canadian consumer that accepts to pay $350/$400 for a game console AND feels attracted by a game like GTA IV have already bought their console prior to the GTA IV launch.

There's the only logical explanation I could find after looking the NPD numbers for April 08.

I bought my 360 in March. Originally I was going to wait to see if there'd be a GTA4 bundle, but a friend of mine was wanting me to play COD4 with him, so I picked it up early. I'm sure a lot of people that wanted GTA4 already owned a 360 or PS3. The same will mostly be true for Metal Gear 4, Gears of War 2 etc.

 

[upnorthsox]

Why would anyone think that HW #'s associated with GTAIV should be showing up in any great numbers for this NPD? GTAIV didn't release until April 29th and was not available overcounter until early May so anyone picking up both got theirs after the cutoff. Except for some pre-orderers (which may have showed up in March too btw) most sales won't show up til May's NPD. That's the same for both the ps3 and x360.

 

[patsu]

All this talk of the Wii "winning" this generation reminds me of a "Gone with the Wind" quote, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a ...." A more succint version of an above post. The following may come off a little harsh, probably because I just do not understand the draw. The same way I don't understand how what passes for "comedy" movies actually have anyone pay to see them rather than the other way around. Say the Wii grabs 120 million market share, so what? Does anyone really see it affecting the way MS, Sony, Sega, Bungie, Epic, Bioware, Turn 10, Konami, Capcom, EA, Ubisoft, etc. etc approach the industry? Maybe they try for a piece of that market share, but do our favorite core games get the Disney treatment as a result? Do we really believe that the Wii is some kind of turning point for the industry due to its success?

Actually, I think the answers to all your questions above may be "Yes", but not in the ways people think, and certainly not abruptly. There is a lot of growth in that area. People are still trying to learn about the newcomers. The forward looking execs are probably already thinking about (or working on) them. Imagine if there is a 3rd party system seller for the Wii market, I don't think it would be smaller than GTA4 or Halo3. In any case, I believe it's a positive event for the industry. I also believe that companies can learn a thing or two from a Wii game as PS3/360 userbase extends.

Although many hardcore games may stay the same, _where game making is concerned_ (not talking about marketing), I am not fully convinced yet about the clean separation (Is Donkey Kong or Pong a hardcore game or casual game during its time ? What is the equivalent of these game today ?). Can hardcore games get the Disney treatment ? I don't know. Someone may be able to do it for some games, especially when even hardcore gamers get sick of them.

These sales threads would be more interesting if people are calm about it. I am not sure where all the negativity comes from. Racing for unit number is one thing, but as people pointed out... making money is also important.

 

[djskribbles]

The Xbox 360 and the PS3 both continue to be irrelevant. I wonder what Microsoft and Sony will do next-gen to become relevant again.

i hope they don't follow Nintendo and target the casual market. the Wii is great for what it is, but personally, i'd rather have a high-powered, more expensive machine.

 

[Tap In]

Sony was equal with he 360 , they are side by side now in sales, and i guess they are still the most expensive console of the bunch?

Now they just have to pass them and keep the momentum going for a 5 years and the XBOX will have lost again.

At least the war isnt over, and maybe Microsoft will have to cut the expected life span of their console shorterthan planned.

yea... good luck with that. 3 months of sales parity with 360 poised for a price drop while all indications
PS3 is land locked price-wise for a while. not to mention the HUGE volume of software sales on 360.

5 years?? talk about irrelevant. we'll be well into the next gen when that Sony "win" happens.

I dont understand the Wii, really i dont.

it's simple... every Tom, Dick and Harry will buy one so their kid can say they have it (it's like a kids social requirement in USA). For MOST owners the kids will play some games on it otherwise it's used once per month for a Wii Sports marathon with Uncle Bill and the niece, nephew. OTOH, people buying the PS3 and 360 actually buy software (and BD movies).

(I own a Wii)

 

[thatdude90210]

i hope they don't follow Nintendo and target the casual market. the Wii is great for what it is, but personally, i'd rather have a high-powered, more expensive machine.

They will... if they like money. The most expensive to produce game, and one of the best selling games this generation will see, just failed to move any hardware. How the hell are the likes of MGS4 and Gears 2 going to do it?

The way I see it, Sony & MS just pushed their Wii-like controller up half a generation. MS for sure. Sony... they are in a tougher spot. They gave a half hearted effort already, and they are just pushing out a new rumble controller. If they come out with a Wiimote, they will be asking some of their fans to buy their third set of controllers in a single generation. That's a little hard to swallow.

 

[dobwal]

The MS and Sony are going to have to rethink their business model. Subidizing hardware losses with software profits is not sustainable for non market leading consoles. Plain and simple.

If the 360's and PS3's hardware cost at release were $399 and $599 respectively, everyone in the market would be making money hands over fists by now.

I can't understand why everyone but Nintendo realizes that the #1 or bust model of heavy hardware subidization through software profits is dangerous and relatively unhealthy strategy for long term sustainability.

Some may say the Wii, PS3 and 360 aren't natural competitors but for the manufacturers they are, as all three target the same consumers just with different offerings. PS3 and 360 are like the BMW and Mercedes of gaming market forced to compete with the Toyota (the Wii) because they employ business models of subidization where profits and cost reductions are dependent on high volume sales.

The manufacturers of BMW and Mercedes aren't dependent on high-high volume sales as their intention is to provide luxury and comfort and at high prices that produces lower volumes than say a toyota or honda but with larger profit margains per unit. MS and Sony has it backwards as they offer highend features and prices but with smaller profit margins per unit than the Wii. If thats not a$$ backwards I don't what is.

 

[thatdude90210]

For MOST owners the kids will play some games on it otherwise it's used once per month for a Wii Sports marathon with Uncle Bill and the niece, nephew. OTOH, people buying the PS3 and 360 actually buy software (and BD movies).

And yet, the Wii had more software in the top ten then either the 360 or the PS3.

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

...Unfortunately, the Xbox 360 and the PS3 are simply seen by the mainstream as the console that nerds, virgins, perverts (Soul Calibur 4 is apparently trying to appeal to this crowd ) and losers buy. Microsoft and Sony need to change this "perception" before the next generation begins. If they dont, they will fall into the abyss of irrelevance again.

I don't think PS3 or Xbox360 is seen by the mainstream in this fashion at all. I haven't talked to anyone who has such an opinion.

The thing that really bugs me about the Wii is that it seems that by and large the people that buy them do not truly enjoy the games they're playing. There's clearly exceptions, a few of my friends absolutely love super smash brothers for example, but it seems like most Wii owners couldn't give a dam about gaming in the same way as I do. There's just no emotional connection to the games, they are pure and simple time killers with very little depth and complexity.

 

[-tkf-]

yea... good luck with that. 3 months of sales parity with 360 poised for a price drop while all indications
PS3 is land locked price-wise for a while. not to mention the HUGE volume of software sales on 360..

How much cheaper is a 360 today compared to a PS3?

I guess dropping the price will shift more machines, but if the 360 is cheaper as is it´s not gonna help alot is it? Feature wise it just lacks a Blu-Ray drive to really compete. Imho of course, but i can just see the "sales person" present these 2 consoles (i guess he earns most on the PS3?).

"This is a Sony PS3 , it has the new High Definition disc format, the "next dvd". This is the 360 it has the old format called DVD. If you want to take advantage of your new TV or the next TV your getting you are getting the Blu-Ray drive "for free" in the PS3"

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I think what these numbers show is that the current price of the consoles prohibits any software from being a system seller.

The only software titles that appear to move consoles at these price points are exclusive, pre-existing IPs. And I'd go so far as to say that those are so closely tied to the console brand itself, they are essentially one in the same.

To dobwal's point, I don't think there's anything wrong with their business models. The high price of the hardware has resulted in longer console life and a requirement to stay at higher prices for longer periods of time in order to hit profitability. Don't forget that without the manufacturing issues and the cost involved there, the 360 would probably already be at that lower point. Individual failures in execution don't necessarily demonstrate a flawed model. And who isn't 'making money hand over fist' this generation? Sony & MS are edging towards profitability, and certainly the software side is tickled to death.

Sure, you could say that MS could have moved a bunch of consoles or that RS could have sold double or triple the numbers of GTA IV had the 360 dropped to $199 on the 29th, but RS already made out of the world profits and MS would have taken a bath on that price cut.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Imho of course, but i can just see the "sales person" present these 2 consoles (i guess he earns most on the PS3?).

I don't know of anybody who has purchased any console, this generation or last, from a store that had a sales person, let alone one that worked on a commission.

 

[liolio]

They will... if they like money. The most expensive to produce game, and one of the best selling games this generation will see, just failed to move any hardware. How the hell are the likes of MGS4 and Gears 2 going to do it?

I cut the wiimote like controler as there is already a thread about it, and my opinion is clearly wiimote / nunchuck (even if improvement are needed) have have been clearly acclaimed by costumer as a new standard IMHO.

No one can afford to pass on a standard for to long, IMHO.

I'm almost sure that msg 4 won't move many units, expecially due the timing release.

For GeoW II, (and other titles for MS this fall) it's more discussable, especially as MS is likely to face this fall with a very interesting price, after this summer I feel that MS will at last have done the job with all reliability problem they encounter and they will have cheaper system to manufacture.
Thus they will be in situation to make estimation about how much the whole RroD costed (or still will but I guess they already have precise estimations) them, how much they earn through systems & sales vs cut profits to expand market share.

They seems in a better situation than Sony in this regard (who seems under pressure the pressure of auctions owners and accordingly to change in the executives), they can afford a last hit to win some more market share.

But clearly the price is a huge issue, there are a lot of gamers even casual who like the kind of games you find on the 360/ps3 who still wait for lower price.

And I feel like we should not compare the price of the WIi vs say arcade SKU (pro is more relevant but I choose this one because the price are close), people that buy the Wii may have pay more than what Nintendo ask.
BAsicely it sells almost like a "board game" for party playing with friends girlfriends child etc., but an expensive one, thus people who buy have money.

Not all hardcore are blessed with huge budget (or HD tv).
What I mean is the public that buy the ps3/360 might be more price conscious than the one who buy the Wii as no more less than expansive party game used from time to time.

 

[djskribbles]

....

I'm almost sure that msg 4 won't move many units, expecially due the timing release.
...

considering that MGS4 is bundled with the PS3, i disagree with that.
of course, i could be wrong.

 

[liolio]

considering that MGS4 is bundled with the PS3, i disagree with that.
of course, i could be wrong.

you killed my point

 

[dobwal]

How much cheaper is a 360 today compared to a PS3?

I guess dropping the price will shift more machines, but if the 360 is cheaper as is it´s not gonna help alot is it? Feature wise it just lacks a Blu-Ray drive to really compete. Imho of course, but i can just see the "sales person" present these 2 consoles (i guess he earns most on the PS3?).

"This is a Sony PS3 , it has the new High Definition disc format, the "next dvd". This is the 360 it has the old format called DVD. If you want to take advantage of your new TV or the next TV your getting you are getting the Blu-Ray drive "for free" in the PS3"

You do know that 75% of consoles in the US market lack Bluray and that BluRay less consoles outsold BluRay featured consoles almost 5 to 1 in the US for the month of April.

The biggest influence on the sale of the PS3 is still the word "Playstation" and not "BluRay". Most people don't browse shop for console anyways. The majority of time the consumers/customer interaction goes like this,

"Do you have any [insert console of choice here]?"

and not

"I looking to buy a game console, can you tell me which is the best one?".

 

[Scott_Arm]

"Do you have any [insert console of choice here]?"

and not

"I looking to buy a game console, can you tell me which is the best one?".

I can see salespersons trying to sell PS3s to people who are looking at HDTVs. But you're right, I don't think anyone walks into a store and asks which console they should be. They either know which one they want or their kids tell them which ones they want.

 

[-tkf-]

I can see salespersons trying to sell PS3s to people who are looking at HDTVs. But you're right, I don't think anyone walks into a store and asks which console they should be. They either know which one they want or their kids tell them which ones they want.

Of course, and the last 2 times i was in a game shop i didnt hear the store clerk explain the difference between the different consoles.

There is plenty of people who have no idea on what console to buy, just look at the Wii numbers.

 

[-tkf-]

You do know that 75% of consoles in the US market lack Bluray and that BluRay less consoles outsold BluRay featured consoles almost 5 to 1 in the US for the month of April.

I am posting in the same thread so why ask this question?