xJumPeRJumPzZ
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because my comments were deleted in other thread I will say it here again. I think that most of this spec leaks are bogus.
NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*
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From what I could gather, for those with good info... most of 'em are friends of the real insiders. Either they lack the understanding to interpret the documents in their hands, or their insider friends are not technical enough to read the docs.
And whatever they have may not be the latest revision.
And whatever they have may not be the latest revision.
rockaman
Regular
Lmao, who edited my post with pandas? I like it 
And I'm definitely not saying that only applies to the few, because as we can see from this thread there are a lot of people who prefer their own preferred reality seen through a beer goggles smeared with vaseline.
I'm just waiting for the clouds to part and the tears to stop so we can finally get a clear view of what is going on
I completely agree with you. The problem is the Dunning-Kruger effect only hinders the rest of us from getting an impartial appraisal. Raw facts and specifications which could be interpreted by those who are more knowledgeable are turned into guess-timations based on emotion.
And I'm definitely not saying that only applies to the few, because as we can see from this thread there are a lot of people who prefer their own preferred reality seen through a beer goggles smeared with vaseline.
I'm just waiting for the clouds to part and the tears to stop so we can finally get a clear view of what is going on
But all other things are unlikely to be equal. 50% more shader power implies 50% more texturing power as well. And there's a fairly good chance that's reflects in the ROPS too so there's fill rate hit as well.
It wouldn't make sense to just cut out 33% of the ALU's and leave everything else the same.
What should be roughly similar from the sounds of it is geometry setup/tessellation performance (I don't yet put any stock in the rumour of double setup rate in the xbox - although it is a feasible GCN2 feature so anythings possible). Also memory bandwidth seems to be pretty equal now with the advantage potentially going either way depending on the particular implementation of the esram. And obviously CPU performance should be near identical based on the current most reliable rumours although if Microsoft is reserving more for the OS then the advantage might be there for Sony as well.
I suppose when you add in Microsofts advantage of the larger RAM things even out a little though. I guess when you add up all the elements as a whole it wouldn't be unreasonable to generalise the advantage as being slight. I don't think developers describing it that way implies there must be some secret sauce to close the gap. Merely that despite a 50% advantage in some key GPU factors, lots of other important factors are near enough equal and the xbox even has a fairly decent advantage in memory size.
D
Deleted member 11852
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The Edge article states the PS4 will automatically save the last 15 minutes of footage, it doesn't say that this is the maximum length.
If the PS4 is streaming video to the HDD - and I think we can safely assume it's not going to using a significant chunk of it's RAM as a cache for this - then the ability to stream video is only limited by the available HDD space.
There's no technical reason reason why the PS4 to stream a much longer session - I think the 15 minutes thing is just that it's always doing it in case you do something cool that you want to share but didn't enable saving video footage before you started.
No doubt we'll find out in 18 days :smile:
It's not a tech challenge per se but Sony's policy. They always leave the final decision to the developers. In other words, the devs may turn it off in case they need all the resources for gaming or they want to roll their own.
Is the article saying Sony will allocate enough resources for video capture in heavy HDD streaming situation too ?
EDIT:
I *think* Tourne will drop frames or refuse to start to accommodate the running game. Perhaps they will do it here too.
Word on the street is they will reserve 512MB.
Based on the PS3 and Vita experience, they usually sacrifice the OS for the games (and power efficiency in Vita).
That's why some of us like myself think they should move some premium in-game tasks to server side. Let Gaikai and SOE in.
Based on the PS3 and Vita experience, they usually sacrifice the OS for the games (and power efficiency in Vita).
That's why some of us like myself think they should move some premium in-game tasks to server side. Let Gaikai and SOE in.
I know that. I am talking about computing resources, even the Vita reserved a core for OS tasks, yet when ps4 and durango are being compared, it is assumed that durango will reserve a core or two (those in the know pegs it at just one core), while the same assumption is not made for ps4 yet it most assuredly will need computing resources to run the OS.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I think the very fact that they are putting a "Share" button on the new controller means that this functionality will be available all the time for every game on an OS level, invisible to the devs. 512MB reserved RAM plus whatever CPU/fixed function HW reseources they will allow will be more than sufficient for this. So I believe Edge when tey say that Sony will do this and it will not affect game performance. It's certainly technically possible and Sony have designed the entire system with it in mind. (Again all according to rumours
)I believe Vita did it with 1 core. PS4 should reserve one full core too for security and OS use, assuming they are using ARM/AMD's TrustZone. AMD's TrustZone however uses a hidden ARM core inside. So that part is a mystery at the moment.
People also reported 16GB Flash RAM for OS firmware and system use (Vita has built-in 4GB Flash RAM).
I think the very fact that they are putting a "Share" button on the new controller means that this functionality will be available all the time for every game on an OS level, invisible to the devs. 512MB reserved RAM plus whatever CPU/fixed function HW reseources they will allow will be more than sufficient for this. So I believe Edge when tey say that Sony will do this and it will not affect game performance. It's certainly technically possible and Sony have designed the entire system with it in mind. (Again all according to rumours
I hope so ! It's hard to say with Sony. I'm sure you know what I mean.
Somewhere at the back of my mind, I think Sony should release an add-on, for PS3 compatibility and all these in-game community services and media features. They already have all the building blocks done over the past 7 years.
Either that or Gaikai.
rockaman
Regular
Honestly, I don't think Sony should leave these networking and social features up to developers.
They should be built into the OS.
Sony made the mistake with PS3 to let developers decide all the features of multiplayer, and it led to inconsistencies and criticisms leveling it lower than the quality of online gaming and communication compared to Xbox Live.
Now that's not to say PS4 should have Live and paying services just to play online. What it means is that Sony needs to have the structure and framework and scaffolding there in place for developers to take advantage of and deliver the consistent experience.
Parties to enter games to enter games together? Chatrooms before entering games for game groups? Needs to be built into the OS like Steam and Xbox Live.
Communication, sharing, uploading videos, and more should be consistent feature sets of PS4 if it wishes to set itself a part as a system that is really built for the end user.
They should be built into the OS.
Sony made the mistake with PS3 to let developers decide all the features of multiplayer, and it led to inconsistencies and criticisms leveling it lower than the quality of online gaming and communication compared to Xbox Live.
Now that's not to say PS4 should have Live and paying services just to play online. What it means is that Sony needs to have the structure and framework and scaffolding there in place for developers to take advantage of and deliver the consistent experience.
Parties to enter games to enter games together? Chatrooms before entering games for game groups? Needs to be built into the OS like Steam and Xbox Live.
Communication, sharing, uploading videos, and more should be consistent feature sets of PS4 if it wishes to set itself a part as a system that is really built for the end user.
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Prophecy2k
Veteran
With Sony and the PS3 this was always an issue of poor planning and foresight on Sony's part, together with the lack of available ram in the PS3.
The Xbox was designed from the beginning to have all the party and social features it had. The PS3 has been a work in progress since its release. Sony never planned for stuff like cross game chat, in game XMB, in game YouTube recording, screenshot taking etc. so the problem was that when the time came to add those features, their system was too ram starved to do it in the reserved OS memory footprint (outside of a few like in-game XMB). So I believe Sony left it up to the devs not because they wanted to, but rather they were forced to do so, as to add those features would mean devs having to sacrifice available memory resources allocated to their application, resources outside of the OS reserved mem footprint.
This time I cannot imagine that they would do the same. Knowing what features they want to use in order to differentiate their hardware from their primary competitor. They have already said as much themselves. There's no reason to leave such features at the behest of developers, as it creates an ostensibly inconsistent user experience across the console. Sony know this and I don't believe they'd be dumb enough to screw this up again after having to learn the hard way with the PS3. It would be indefencible IMHO.
Also, I get the feeling that, as with Vita, today's Sony cares alot about user experience, social features and software services that make a console platform stand out from the pack. Sony aren't Nintendo. They seem alot to me as if they know what needs to happen with PS4. The only question then for me is how well they can overcome themselves, as they are often their biggest enemy, and deliver on the things they need to to create something truly compelling.
I'm happy to wait and see really. But I also want to be optimistic.
Nice OS discussion here, respect and please keep it up!
Agree that Sony should make many things OS dependant, this way the can leave the developer to worry about the game + have the same UI/logic for the whole platform. A big but, I loved the open way of the PS3 (from hardware to the possibility of mods etc.), hope that they keep the same approach in the PS4 and develop it further. Seems the middle way is the way to go...
The share button/possibility some of you talk about is very intriguing, imagine you can play DayZ standalone (wink) on your PS4 and streaming without any knowledge of capture programs, editing, re-encoding, uploading settings, sync issues et al, that could be a big plus. Also looking forward what MS has up their sleeve, we are so lucky there is an competition, else we would probably see the approach "here, take this and be glad you have it, now all used games are blocked, micro transactions are mandatory and discounts are are thing of the past".
Cheers...
Agree that Sony should make many things OS dependant, this way the can leave the developer to worry about the game + have the same UI/logic for the whole platform. A big but, I loved the open way of the PS3 (from hardware to the possibility of mods etc.), hope that they keep the same approach in the PS4 and develop it further. Seems the middle way is the way to go...
The share button/possibility some of you talk about is very intriguing, imagine you can play DayZ standalone (wink) on your PS4 and streaming without any knowledge of capture programs, editing, re-encoding, uploading settings, sync issues et al, that could be a big plus. Also looking forward what MS has up their sleeve, we are so lucky there is an competition, else we would probably see the approach "here, take this and be glad you have it, now all used games are blocked, micro transactions are mandatory and discounts are are thing of the past".
Cheers...
For the video streaming, screenshot stuff etc, don't forget that Sony has done SDK stuff for this already on the PS3, and also stuff like Play TV if you remember. Several games on PS3 actually support recording gameplay to HDD and then uploading that. But it did have some memory and hdd overhead which likely kept most high profile and multiplatform titles from using it.
For next-gen, it would make a lot of sense to include support for that natively without requiring any real overhead, and it would also help other feature such as streaming to Vita etc.
For next-gen, it would make a lot of sense to include support for that natively without requiring any real overhead, and it would also help other feature such as streaming to Vita etc.
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If they are serious about UGC sharing, they should implement an effective search, browse, and rating service to promote these videos. It can be reused for user created levels.
The leaving It to the devs is stupid and creates inconsistencies in the gaming experiences.
How devs opted to deal with voice implementation and trophies in the early life of the Ps3 is a perfect example.
Having consistency across all games is key to a good user experience.
I firmly believe there won't be any "leave it to the devs" going forward by Sony. It's easier to create the tools upfront, enforce them rather than hoping devs collectively do it on their own.
I'm also sure the optional stuff at the beginning of this gen was largely in part to poor tools, planning, and a lack of understanding (and perceived importance) of system and online services.
Some features are more important than others. Consistent always on voice-chat and partying needs to be uniform, but video capture could be optional.
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