Well yeah, thats corporate strategy. I imagine MS engineers must be pissed of building something like this. Having very tight budgets to spend on graphics, but still expecting them to deliver. That was the reason why Ed Fries left MS (although he was disappointed with lack of 360 power, but thats kinds bogus).
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Budgets != BOM.
I assume they were given a blank check to deliver on high performance chips that has relatively low BOM to OG 360s.
Look, if MS said "Deliver gaming box with 200-250W cap" they would probably do something like Orbis, possibly with more customized GPU.
When the higher ups tell you "We need 8GB of RAM and we are packing Kinect with it. Console should be 300$ and not a penny more". There is not much they can do. They know that they have to go with slow RAM. They know it will be insufficient for gaming so they have to go with embedded fast memory, but thats also expensive and takes quite a bit of space on die so there is not much room to go on GPU side. Obviously, there are hard limits and only reason for Durango's low compute performances is in MS higher up strategy. I have no reason to doubt these engineers at MS wouldn't do amazing job if it wasn't for that.
*They will probably do amazing job even the way its now, still, there is alot to be desired from Durango unfortunately.
Actually I think there will be quite a few games that are 1080/60fps on PS4. At least in early year. There is no reason not to really. Majority of most demanding games on PC run at PS4 settings pretty good actually.
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arijoytunir
Regular
when i asked about the ram situation of orbis and durango to Timothy Lottes - http://timothylottes.blogspot.in/20...showComment=1359087365844#c721108568894812681
leaving out the DME - orbis > durango
leaving out the DME - orbis > durango
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Hecatoncheires
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This assumption has a little flaw since 3rd party developers tend to (officially) like the system that allows them to make the most profit. If Durango outsells Orbis dramatically because of some fancy Kinect stuff that is packed with each console, then 3rd parties will most likely treat Durango as the lead platform of the next generation. The pure horror for Microsoft would probably be if a (graphically more potent) Orbis outsells Durango and becomes the lead platform for 3rd party game development. But that is very hypothetically speaking.
I'm also wondering how much resources Microsoft is willing to dedicate to Kinect, assuming that it will be an out of the box feature for the new console. This could even increase the gap between Orbis and Durango.
Not everybody likes kinect, or see it as an advantage, or something really all that interesting; me for example. Some people are also not going to be physically able to use games that utilize/require kinect, such as those with disabilities or very cramped homes.
An over-reliance on kinect isn't necessarily going to be a benefit for the platform, it could just as easily be a hindrance, not least because motion gaming is kinda difficult to work into many genres and could lead to gimmicky and dumbed-down gameplay.
An over-reliance on kinect isn't necessarily going to be a benefit for the platform, it could just as easily be a hindrance, not least because motion gaming is kinda difficult to work into many genres and could lead to gimmicky and dumbed-down gameplay.
arijoytunir
Regular
He meant the ram setup of choice by the developers for their games ! It doesn't include which will be their lead platform .
Hecatoncheires
Newcomer
I know what he meant.
I just wanted to point out that there is a difference between "setup of choice" in terms of best graphics and "setup of choice" in terms of economic efficiency. Game developers don't have an infinite amount of resources and they most likely want to keep the business running. But since Sony is rumored to have a pretty decent SDK, Orbis is certainly going to give Durango a very hard time ...unless Microsoft is showing up with some wizzard jizz!
The problem with his entire blog article is that it's based upon the commonly speculated specs (he openly states that he doesn't have any concrete information - and uses the current speculation as a basis).
His conclusions do seem interesting and reasonable. But even he doesn't know whether the premises he bases his conclusions on are actually valid.
Having now read the blog, I think he's way off regards Durango based on what we've heard. I can't see it being pre-GCN if Sony have a GCN architecture, and we've even had suggestion Durango is GCN2. Certainly, his view of it being a Windows box with all of Windows' issues seems pretty wild speculation. Take the opinions of Orbis's GPU possibilities as insightful, and then expect the same from Durango too, IMO.
This is being covered in two threads now (isn't every subject these days?Lottes' out of the Loop?
). He may have insider knowledge from AMD execs who defected in 2nd half of last year, and be using recent leaks to cover his insider knowledge in discussion. This means Durango is either GCN2, or VLIW, with rumours diametrically opposed.dragonelite
Veteran
Ooh god i hope this isn't true. This would mean the end of getting ms console i can just as easily pump that money in my desktop.
This is being covered in two threads now (isn't every subject these days?
If you believe the rumors of it being VLIW then it also must be IBM PPC. That's how the rumor is indicated from the article published.
So Durango is either IBM PPC and VLIW or it's AMD x86 and GCN2.
Bagel seed
Veteran
Durango and Durango Refresh would be PCs in a box then. I already got one of those though.
Bagel seed
Veteran
More from Tim:
DX11.1 is that much of a drag?
DX11.1 is that much of a drag?
french toast
Veteran
Just think..if 720 has gcn2 with advanced api above and beyond 11.1....with it being microsoft and they were smart enough that could very well happen.
I love how 1.5x the flops almost invariably becomes "almost 2x the flops" and turns a 50% advantage into a 100% advantage.
I think it's due to the fact that the *spawn* threads on here are getting out of hand. Having just one big thread with all the next-gen discussion was way more comfortable (even if the discussion got a little messy).This is being covered in two threads now (isn't every subject these days?
Up until very recently, a 50% flop advantage was reduced to "no advantage at all" by a secret sauce that turned normal flops into magic flops ... so we're making some progress here
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