SenjutsuSage
Newcomer
Good! We get a nice break. We can relax a bit until the Xbox event. Besides, it's Mobile World congress. There are other gadgets that can be considered for a change.
I have a feeling not many actual decisions will be made.
NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*
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I have a feeling not many actual decisions will be made.
Betanumerical
Veteran
But 720P would be 1280x720, why the extra 1280 * 36 pixels.
SenjutsuSage
Newcomer
I wouldn't take it as anything meaningful. Likely something done on a whim. We've seen a lot of weird screenshot resolutions this gen that made very little sense and generally had nothing at all to do with what the actual native resolution of the game turned out to be.
I expect a very similar trend to continue into next gen. Expect a lot of 1080p screenshots for games that won't actually be 1080p native. Only truly worthwhile way to judge a game nowadays is a nice high quality video.
Anything less and you really have no idea what it is you're getting. At the very least, screenshots will give people who are interested something nice to look at.
SenjutsuSage
Newcomer
I have no idea how to edit my posts, so I did this. And, to be honest, playing devil's advocate. It would not surprise me in the least if there were a requirement that stated all games must be above 720p. A few extra pixels, done. Requirement met.
Sounds silly, I know, so probably just on a whim
SlickShoesRUCrazy
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Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
Not the public at large. I'm just talking about core gamers. The people that get the ball rolling and spread the word to others.
No, power ISN'T everything. It's a, undeniably, HUGE piece of it, though (in game consoles). Otherwise, there would be no new consoles. Beyond power is flexibility. Features would be another one. Content (amount, variety, etc), yet, another large item. Availability is a deciding factor, as well.
All these things strike at the core gamer's mind. How many would be swayed by price alone? There is a reason for the term mass market pricing. It's not used to describe bringing in the "core gamer". Why is that? Could it be because core gamers are less concerned with price, within reason? No core gamers wants to be teased for having the weaker system with less variety of games, worse multiplatform titles AND weaker looking/performing 1st party titles. If you know core gamers that enjoy being in that situation, PLEASE speak up.
Personally, I go with which ever console covers the most of those categories. Those emotionally invested don't follow those rules. They might just pick the one thing the side they're emotionally invested in has as the most important thing to them. It still doesn't thwart the buyer's remorse and cognitive dissonance that's surely to follow.
BTW, Blu-ray has been outselling DVD on new releases for a while. If it's not released on Blu-ray, of course it doesn't have the opportunity to sell.
SenjutsuSage
Newcomer
Not the public at large. I'm just talking about core gamers. The people that get the ball rolling and spread the word to others.
No, power ISN'T everything. It's a, undeniably, HUGE piece of it, though (in game consoles). Otherwise, there would be no new consoles. Beyond power is flexibility. Features would be another one. Content (amount, variety, etc), yet, another large item. Availability is a deciding factor, as well.
All these things strike at the core gamer's mind. How many would be swayed by price alone? There is a reason for the term mass market pricing. It's not used to describe bringing in the "core gamer". Why is that? Could it be because core gamers are less concerned with price, within reason? No core gamers wants to be teased for having the weaker system with less variety of games, worse multiplatform titles AND weaker looking/performing 1st party titles. If you know core gamers that enjoy being in that situation, PLEASE speak up.
Personally, I go with which ever console covers the most of those categories. Those emotionally invested don't follow those rules. They might just pick the one thing the side they're emotionally invested in has as the most important thing to them. It still doesn't thwart the buyer's remorse and cognitive dissonance that's surely to follow.
BTW, Blu-ray has been outselling DVD on new releases for a while. If it's not released on Blu-ray, of course it doesn't have the opportunity to sell.
I certainly don't mind being teased in such a fashion. For example, I don't think the Wii-U's future is looking particularly bright, but I plan to get one for the new Xenoblade game. It, at no point, matters to me that it's a console that isn't in the same league as Durango or PS4. I've commonly said this over the years, but Final Fantasy 7 is still a game that, to me, looks beautiful even by today's standards.
In fact, Durango, if it happens to be weaker than PS4, and by the amount being suggested, it still wouldn't remotely impact my thought process or outlook on the system, which I still think is very positive until I have more legitimate reason to believe otherwise, Kinect is not such a reason, DDR3 instead of GDDR5, less rops, less CUs, less TMUs is also not such a reason. Can the console provide me with incredible games? It can and it will.
I must have Halo 5, and I'm thoroughly unconvinced by the thought that the PS4 will be stronger, that this will somehow also keep Halo 5 from being an incredible game that both looks amazing and is a blast play. It will not impact my excitement about seeing where the Chief's story goes next, and what, if anything, might he think if he finds out about the stuff going on with Dr. Halsey.
Everybody gets excited about specs and such, and I'm equally as excited by the thought of the PS4's power, but there are no duds here for a true gamer that truly in it for the games. I dare not risk depriving myself of anything due to what the specs are under the hood. I don't play specs, but I do play games.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
a) what is it? 50% less CUs, 100% less ROPs, 50% less texture units, and 108GB/s less continuous bandwidth (periodic boosts up to 170GB/s).
b) Have you talked to Apple followers? They are emotionally invested. They don't want to hear about anything being more powerful or having more features than their iPhones. My daughter is one of them. I mentioned the emotionally invested crowd before. There is no getting to them.
$500 to $1000 item comparisons are well outside the realm of console concepts. It doesn't translate/apply to the upcoming situation. There will not likely be more than $100 separation between these two consoles. Can you give me an example more akin to the upcoming console state?
The percentages don't work that way.
Durango has more than 9 CUs, more than 0 ROPs, and so on.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
I certainly don't mind being teased in such a fashion. For example, I don't think the Wii-U's future is looking particularly bright, but I plan to get one for the new Xenoblade game. It, at no point, matters to me that it's a console that isn't in the same league as Durango or PS4. I've commonly said this over the years, but Final Fantasy 7 is still a game that, to me, looks beautiful even by today's standards.
In fact, Durango, if it happens to be weaker than PS4, and by the amount being suggested, it still wouldn't remotely impact my thought process or outlook on the system, which I still think is very positive until I have more legitimate reason to believe otherwise, Kinect is not such a reason, DDR3 instead of GDDR5, less rops, less CUs, less TMUs is also not such a reason. Can the console provide me with incredible games? It can and it will.
I must have Halo 5, and I'm thoroughly unconvinced by the thought that the PS4 will be stronger, that this will somehow also keep Halo 5 from being an incredible game that both looks amazing and is a blast play. It will not impact my excitement about seeing where the Chief's story goes next, and what, if anything, might he think if he finds out about the stuff going on with Dr. Halsey.
Everybody gets excited about specs and such, and I'm equally as excited by the thought of the PS4's power, but there are no duds here for a true gamer that truly in it for the games. I dare not risk depriving myself of anything due to what the specs are under the hood. I don't play specs, but I do play games.
If you have money to throw towards all the consoles, fine. Enjoy. If you could only afford one, would you use that money on the Wii U? What I'm talking about is in the sense of being able to only pick up one within the same time frame or period.
Hats off to you, sir! You are the ultimate gamer (plenty of cash and desire to spread around)! I'm sure more people wish they could be in your shoes.
SenjutsuSage
Newcomer
And, for the record, I'm buying all 3 new consoles, because, I've never had the luck of having every game I want to play end up on the same console. This hasn't been true prior to the ps3, 360 and Wii, and it will not be true after.
Even should Durango have inferior third party titles, and I'm personally going on record as saying that I think a lot of people will come up disappointed if they somehow believe the next gen xbox is going to be embarrassed in multi-platform titles, a lot of gamers simply don't care. We're interested because, hey, that stuff interests us, but so long as the game runs well, plays well, not many will care that one console is capable of running it better.
The 360 version of a lot of multiplatform titles weren't selling more than their ps3 counterparts because the 360 versions were superior. There were a variety of reasons far more importantly, such as a lot of people having friends or family that already owned xbox 360s and couldn't resist not hopping onboard while a new system was available, and they got so accustomed to playing the 360, buying games for it and playing online with their friends and family, that they naturally figured it made sense to continue to stick with the Xbox 360, especially because it had a strong games lineup that was a sure thing.
It didn't seem to matter that Sony's first parties were producing all the content that they were, at the level that they were. Enough people simply got comfortable with a routine and found it difficult to break away from that routine. They weren't trying to ignore what Sony was doing, and a lot of people weren't. It's just what was simpler for them. Even overlooked things like having to learn a new user interface or use a different controller can be things that drive gamers towards a specific platform.
The PS4 will not be so much more powerful, so much more blessed and well thought out that the Xbox will ever be in the kind of trouble where some of the doomsday scenarios will ever actually become a reality. There's only one thing that can hurt the next xbox, Microsoft not having a strong enough strategy and not properly supporting developers in getting the most out of their system. Be careful thinking Microsoft will be complacent and just allow things to take place around them.
Even should Durango have inferior third party titles, and I'm personally going on record as saying that I think a lot of people will come up disappointed if they somehow believe the next gen xbox is going to be embarrassed in multi-platform titles, a lot of gamers simply don't care. We're interested because, hey, that stuff interests us, but so long as the game runs well, plays well, not many will care that one console is capable of running it better.
The 360 version of a lot of multiplatform titles weren't selling more than their ps3 counterparts because the 360 versions were superior. There were a variety of reasons far more importantly, such as a lot of people having friends or family that already owned xbox 360s and couldn't resist not hopping onboard while a new system was available, and they got so accustomed to playing the 360, buying games for it and playing online with their friends and family, that they naturally figured it made sense to continue to stick with the Xbox 360, especially because it had a strong games lineup that was a sure thing.
It didn't seem to matter that Sony's first parties were producing all the content that they were, at the level that they were. Enough people simply got comfortable with a routine and found it difficult to break away from that routine. They weren't trying to ignore what Sony was doing, and a lot of people weren't. It's just what was simpler for them. Even overlooked things like having to learn a new user interface or use a different controller can be things that drive gamers towards a specific platform.
The PS4 will not be so much more powerful, so much more blessed and well thought out that the Xbox will ever be in the kind of trouble where some of the doomsday scenarios will ever actually become a reality. There's only one thing that can hurt the next xbox, Microsoft not having a strong enough strategy and not properly supporting developers in getting the most out of their system. Be careful thinking Microsoft will be complacent and just allow things to take place around them.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
If Durango has 16 ROPs and Orbis has 32 ROPs, you can't say Durango has 50% less ROPs. That would mean Orbis had 24 ROPs (50% of Durango's ROPs = 8 ROPs).
Edit: Does saying Orbis has twice the amount (16 more) of ROPs, 6 more CUs, and 24 more texture units than Durango; make it better for you?
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Prophecy2k
Veteran
16 IS 50% less than 32. (32 x 50%/100 = 16, so 32 less 16 = 16)
Or to put it another way, 32 is 100% more than 16.
If you are using "less" or "more than" as your terms, you always use them with respect to the entity you refer to last.
anexanhume
Veteran
33% (less) WRT to Orbis, 50% (more) WRT to durango for CUs. As P2K points out, the modifier refers to the object, not the subject.
SenjutsuSage
Newcomer
It's not that I have all this cash to throw around. Trust me, I'm not rotten rich, but what I have is a love for all kinds of games, and I will go out of my way to make sure that I can play the games that I want to play.
If I absolutely only had the money to grab one console, which would it be? That answer is simple: Which console is most likely to have Halo 5 and 6? Does this mean I'm not absolutely dying to play whatever Sony will have on hand, especially in the way of new IP? No way, I'll just get around to getting the other system when I'm able to. I'm more in a position where I can more easily afford all three systems now, but there was a time when that wasn't the case. I would put $5 or $10 away under a mattress, sometimes for more than a year at times in my life to be able to afford a console with the games that I wanted. I saved for a year and a half to get the new smaller Sega Genesis with the brand new sonic game.
There's a reason that a lot of predictions coming into this gen didn't end up being right: It turned out that a lot of people simply didn't care about some of the things that a lot of vocal folks on the internet felt they should care about.
However excited I may be about Halo, I'm also not stupid. I want security in my purchase, and what is that security? Grand Theft Auto, NBA 2K14, the new Fifa, Watch Dogs, a possible Red Dead Redemption sequel,. It won't remotely factor into my thought process or bother me that the PS4 has superior versions. Does it not matter to me at all, does it just not phase? No, I think about it, but then I'm just not convinced that the difference will be as large as what some think, and even if there was a difference, I'm clearly not afraid enough yet to fear getting the Durango version. For me to be afraid of something, I need legitimate reason to be afraid. I want to see these multiplatform titles release and be just unbearably bad experiences in comparison to the PS4 before I buy into the doom and gloom.
I think the developers are better than that. They aren't being given enough credit. The new xbox will by no means be as hard to develop for as the PS3 was. The PS4 being easier to develop for doesn't suddenly make the new xbox harder to develop for than the PS3, or plain hard to develop for, period.
Yes, you can, and you must. 50% "less" always refers to the percentage of the larger number. The change being referred to is in relation to the PS4, so the PS4 is the old value, and durango is the new value.
Percent change == (|old - new|)/old * 100 == (32 - 16)/32 * 100 == 50.
So the theoretical Durango has 50% less ROPS. If we were talking about what percent _more_ ROPS the PS4 has, then we are using Durango as old, and PS4 and new, so we get |16 - 32|/16 * 100 == 16/16 *100 = 100% more ROPS in PS4.
Percentage change is one of the most misunderstood parts of general statistics.
Well, thanks to @SlickShoesRUCrazy the mystery is solved.
I would have to look over my internet cache, I found the photo in a very crowded thread in a different forum which grows exponentially every day and I am having a hard time finding the exact source again.
I decided to share it because it didn't sound fake to me. PGR5 has been announced just recently and that's exactly how the past generation began before X360 came out.
There were very few pictures of PGR around, and they looked so good back then that people thought they were fake, and in the end they turned out to be real!
My only issue with the pic is that it looked not only too good, but also incredibly high quality.
I thought that developers may be making a foray into the raytracing graphics -reflections of the car in the building-.
Even so, the beginnnings of this generation were similar, so why not? That screenshot of PGR3 was also so good that even Sony used it to announce Gran Turismo.
http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/01/pgr3_gthd_mixup.jpg
We humans seem to always trip over the same stone, as they say, and Sony did it again, this time with the help of Kia Motors -more likely the error came from Kia's camp-.
Shame on Kia, though, for not realising it, not only they did it with a single photo, but two:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/viewer.php?mode=article&id=178849
So the photo could well be very real, I lived the very beginnings of the current generation, perhaps with a bit more intensity -the Wall Guy, PGR photos, etc-, and sometimes history repeats itself.
cheers DJ12
33.33% less CUs, 50% less ROPS, 33.33% less texture units.
Sure, how about the iPad and iPad mini, or the Kindle Fire HD and iPad, or the $69 Kindle and $119 Kindle paperwhite. The $69 kindle is obviously less powerful and has obviously fewer features. Do people who buy it feel buyers remorse? Not from what I've seen. It still displays their books, albeit at a slightly lower resolution. Do most people even notice that the cheaper kindle has 38% fewer pixels? Doubt it.
SenjutsuSage
Newcomer
Regardless of what the power differences between the two consoles are, I think that some would like to misconstrue that power difference to mean something that it really does not: That the new Xbox somehow, because of this power difference, will be unable to produce incredible looking games that will run just as good as they look. And in the off chance that the new xbox does produce incredible looking games that run well, then you should ignore that and look to the PS4 regardless.
I don't think common sense gamers that aren't so picky or that aren't invested for the wrong reasons, will allow themselves to be the victim of a not too clever programming campaign.
I don't think common sense gamers that aren't so picky or that aren't invested for the wrong reasons, will allow themselves to be the victim of a not too clever programming campaign.
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