NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

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Those items don't really have what I would consider core users. They are kind of all casuals. If any of them could be considered "core" users, I would bet most of those went for the higher priced/more feature rich product.
They don't? Really? There are entire forums devoted to e-readers, with feature war threads just as rancorous as you get on neogaf. And you know what? People still buy the cheaper models. Many many enthusiasts buy the non-3g paperwhite. Many enthusiasts buy the $69 kindle over the paperwhite because it has low-tech physical buttons instead of a high tech touchscreen. I would consider myself a hardcore reader, I've owned pretty much every e-reader made, I've been "paper-free" since before the first e-ink reader. I own both an iPad and a Kindle, and if I had to choose one, I would choose the kindle in a heartbeat, despite it costing less than half as much and doing a lot less than the iPad.

Like I've said many times. People's buying decisions rarely hinge on relative power, and much more often hinge on what their friends are buying, whether it does the one specific thing they want (skype, for instance, or Kinect), whether it has the games they want to play (Halo, or Forza, or God of War, for instance), and generally, most importantly, price. If two devices both meet people's requirements, and one is cheaper, a goodly proportion of people will buy the cheaper one, even if the more expensive one is theoretically better.

If your theory were true, we'd all be playing only PC games, since the PC is a lot more powerful than any of the consoles, and anyone buying a console would have horrible buyers remorse.
 
They don't? Really? There are entire forums devoted to e-readers, with feature war threads just as rancorous as you get on neogaf. And you know what? People still buy the cheaper models. Many many enthusiasts buy the non-3g paperwhite. Many enthusiasts buy the $69 kindle over the paperwhite because it has low-tech physical buttons instead of a high tech touchscreen. I would consider myself a hardcore reader, I've owned pretty much every e-reader made, I've been "paper-free" since before the first e-ink reader. I own both an iPad and a Kindle, and if I had to choose one, I would choose the kindle in a heartbeat, despite it costing less than half as much and doing a lot less than the iPad.

Like I've said many times. People's buying decisions rarely hinge on relative power, and much more often hinge on what their friends are buying, whether it does the one specific thing they want (skype, for instance, or Kinect), whether it has the games they want to play (Halo, or Forza, or God of War, for instance), and generally, most importantly, price. If two devices both meet people's requirements, and one is cheaper, a goodly proportion of people will buy the cheaper one, even if the more expensive one is theoretically better.

If your theory were true, we'd all be playing only PC games, since the PC is a lot more powerful than any of the consoles, and anyone buying a console would have horrible buyers remorse.

Of course, people buy the cheaper model. The problem is WHAT type of people? Chances are, if they are harcore forum people, most bought the higher end product. Only if their is a great gulf between price and what you get for that price, is their likely to be a remarkable shift with the hardcore people.

Friends being emotionally invested in one device CAN make a hardcore person pick that device (if they bend to their friend's will). Again, that falls under "emotionally invested" people. However, no one owns either of these consoles, yet. It's an even slate.

Core gamers are not the casuals. If your price is low enough, you can reach the casuals immediately. That will make you have Wii-like top end explosive growth. However, we are talking about core gamers.

Like I said before, core gamer decisions are likely based on the 4 or 5 factors I mentioned in one of my previous posts. If E3 comes and goes and Durango only has the price factor as a win, I'm sure most core gamers will go with PS4. This does not include those emotionally invested, as I said earlier. Nothing will move those people.
 
Wouldn't a more accurate comparison be as follows:

Durango = Betty Crocker Pound Cake with one additional ingredient
PS4 = A bigger Betty Crocker Pound Cake with higher quality ingredients

As a fruit comparison I think it works. It's relative to the whole platform, not just specs.

Coconut = multifaceted, multiple uses (coconut oil, milk, water), more ubiquitous (more accessible aka cheaper). However, can be slightly harder to appreciate (tough shell, aka OS and DVR functions, pay for Live Gold, anti used games, etc)

Pineapple = less ubiquitous (more expensive), more powerful (spiked), simpler but easy to appreciate.
 
As a fruit comparison I think it works. It's relative to the whole platform, not just specs.

Coconut = multifaceted, multiple uses (coconut oil, milk, water), more ubiquitous (more accessible aka cheaper). However, can be slightly harder to appreciate (tough shell, aka OS and DVR functions, pay for Live Gold, anti used games, etc)

Pineapple = less ubiquitous (more expensive), more powerful (spiked), simpler but easy to appreciate.

I just find it amusing that the roles have reversed from the last generation the Sony pushed an exotic if more awkward tech and MS had the more straightforward tech. Now MS have the more exotic RAM tech and Sony the more straightforward tech, it will be interesting to see if MS wind up with the same cross platform performance issues seen on early PS3 cross platform releases with parity only arriving later.
 
Like I said before, core gamer decisions are likely based on the 4 or 5 factors I mentioned in one of my previous posts. If E3 comes and goes and Durango only has the price factor as a win, I'm sure most core gamers will go with PS4. This does not include those emotionally invested, as I said earlier. Nothing will move those people.

Well a good bunch of them stuck with the PS3 this round despite it being the weaker system year after year so I don't doubt a good bunch of them will stick with Xbox next time.

This idea of the 1 dimensional "core gamer" that views games in isolation from everything else, but excludes lots of popular game types, and that desires only the fastest hardware, but excludes all the really fast hardware on the PC, is actually quite funny.
 
Like I said before, core gamer decisions are likely based on the 4 or 5 factors I mentioned in one of my previous posts. If E3 comes and goes and Durango only has the price factor as a win, I'm sure most core gamers will go with PS4. This does not include those emotionally invested, as I said earlier. Nothing will move those people.
Dude, _most_ core gamers are emotionally invested, that's what being a core gamer _is_. Why else would gamers still buy the PS3, even though it's been shown to be essentially the same as the 360, despite being $100 more?

Yes, there are the "power seekers" of the console gaming world, and they might decide to switch to what they perceive to be a more powerful system, but it didn't happen when the PS3 launched, and it's not going to happen this time. By and large, people will buy the system that plays the games they want to play, at a price they consider reasonable.

You seem to be making the assumption that core gamers have no emotional investment in their games or their systems, and you couldn't be farther from the truth. In real like, it's never "only price", it's price + features + games + yes, perceived power + industrial design + whatever else is important to gamers.

A core gamer buying the supposedly less powerful console is going to be spending their time playing games with their friends, not trawling Eurogamer to see if one version has slightly more jaggies than the other. I'm pretty sure the folks who do that aren't really just core gamers at all, they're the obsessive ones that will buy both consoles because that's just what they do. (Like I have two kindles and an iPad).
 
Are metaphors to compare consoles on topic?
There's a funny comparison with food that I don't remember where I read it, it was about books but I'll apply the same to consoles.

Caviar: PS4
Steak: 720
Popcorn: WiiU
Celery: SmartPhone
 
Make no mistake, power will be a factor. Especially when the two are coming out at around the same time. See PS1 vs Saturn. See PS2 vs Dreamcast. The core are early adopters. What gadget lover doesn't compare specs?

The hope and prayer is that casuals will adopt early due to price. But price isn't really a strong factor on its own... it's always a combination of things to consider along with it.

After all, how could PS3 be on track to outsell 360 despite a much higher price and less time on the market? Probably not much to do with power difference, but it definitely wouldn't have hurt if any such gulf was evident.
 
Games will matter. If the multiplatform blockbusters like COD are close enough, then it would come down to what, Halo and Gears of War vs. Uncharted and Killzone?

Xbox360 won that battle this generation, esp. in the US.
 
Make no mistake, power will be a factor. Especially when the two are coming out at around the same time. See PS1 vs Saturn. See PS2 vs Dreamcast. The core are early adopters. What gadget lover doesn't compare specs?

The hope and prayer is that casuals will adopt early due to price. But price isn't really a strong factor on its own... it's always a combination of things to consider along with it.

After all, how could PS3 be on track to outsell 360 despite a much higher price and less time on the market? Probably not much to do with power difference, but it definitely wouldn't have hurt if any such gulf was evident.


I guarantee it won't be a big enough factor. In fact, I'm more willing to bet that the next Xbox will more than likely match the PS4 in more than enough instances to make all this pre-launch release hysteria seem silly. This is an exact re-run of when the PS3 was expected to utterly destroy the 360.

People feel this time around that because there are very similar architectures at work, that this time will be completely different, and it means the PS4 has a clear edge, but things, I suspect, won't play out quite so simply. I have a feeling an entirely different tune will be getting sung once we get a better understanding of the role the ESRAM plays. You don't just make 32MB of SRAM your vram for no good reason. There's a reason for it.

If I'm wrong, so be it, but I'm giving Microsoft's architects working with AMD a little more credit than a lot of people seem willing to.
 
Well a good bunch of them stuck with the PS3 this round despite it being the weaker system year after year so I don't doubt a good bunch of them will stick with Xbox next time.

I think Bluray was a bigger factor for the early survival of the PS3 than the Playstation fans until exclusive quality titles were available.
 
The Kindle analogy is flawed as the cheaper Kindles are arguably better than the higher priced models for the purpose most people buy Kindles for i.e. reading books, since they are lighter and have longer battery life.

With the PS4, all signs are that it's going to have better multiplats and (if this gen is anything to go by) better exclusives too ( and I say this as someone who has 10x more games on 360 than PS3).
Plus it will play used games and work offline, unlike the 720, let alone not have things like Kinect enabled ads :S
Vita mirroring is also a killer feature for core gamers.

If so, I can definitely see an exodus of the core to PS4 - I certainly won't be recommending the 720 to my friends like I did for the 360 this gen, (unless they are complete casuals/girls/small children for whom Kinect titles like Dance Central are more important). And I am sure many people who also have friends who turn to them for gaming advice will do the same (especially if they all want to play online together).

See, it's not just that you lose the core, but also that the core drag a fair few of their less informed friends with them with the 720 suffering from bad word of mouth for being the weaker system (along with the aforementioned non-features)

And for all the people saying "I'll buy 720 because it'll have Halo on it", a lot of people are quite unhappy with Halo 4 (read the thread) and the direction 343 and MS is taking the series so are actually not particularly looking forward to H5.

As a big Halo player (who jumped ship from PS just for Halo 1), and a big splitscreen/system link player - I'll definitely consider getting a 720 for Halo 5 but if Destiny comes out with 4 player splitscreen support and has better gameplay than H5 then I might just save my $400 and watch cutscene compilations on youtube to find out what happens in the story (which I just did for ME3, thank god I didn't spend 30 hours playing through it for that ending!)

Plus, let's not forget MS is still not able to beat the PS3 in sales standings by any clear margin.
This is despite it being cheaper, Kinect having a far better reception than Move and being launched a year earlier. The Sony and PS brand still carry a lot of heft, especially in Europe, Asia, Australia etc - about the only place where 360 sells more is America.

It's going to be harder on MS this time around as they're launching at the same time, with a weaker console and non-features like no used games and no offline.
People will be willing to spend $100 more on PS4 when they can save money by buying used games or borrowing them from friends.

I'm sure MS will do quite well with Kinect and being part of the Win8 ecosystem but am not sure what impact core gamers will have on the system's sales, even bkilian has said MS have had a ton of wind taken out of their sales.

I suppose one thing MS could do if they don't like the way sales are going is to buy exclusivity for big releases, that would be horrible though - imagine if the relatively poor PS3 versions of GTA4 or RDR were the only ones you could play unless you wanted to wait a year.
 
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Yes I can picture millions rushing to spend an extra $300 so they can play their ps4 games on the 6" screen of the Vita. They can pretend they own a wiiu.
 
Yes I can picture millions rushing to spend an extra $300 so they can play their ps4 games on the 6" screen of the Vita. They can pretend they own a wiiu.

Hardly, the Vita is already $200, if it comes down to $150 it's very good value - compared to stuff like a 3DS or an iTouch or even the overpriced controller accessories for your smartphone/tablet.
 
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