NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[Aeoniss]

Now people are clinging to rumors of a "Durango Dual GPU" set up. If this were true than why haven't any reliable sources pegged it as such?

I heard those initial rumors but nothing from the regular leakers. I don't think this is something one could easily hide and sweep under the rug from those guys.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

We still know very little. I know people hate to hear that and want to persist with comparisons anyway, but its true. Until we see the rest of PS4 and the whole of Durango, this thread remains ridiculous.

You love it, really!

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Yea, no motorized parts or separate power cable also. Sony will optimize the BOM cost to be as cheap as possible, but robust to stand falls.

My thoughts exactly. I was anticipating more here but perhaps Sony simply went for "good enough" for next to nothing to produce.

 

[Bagel seed]

Now people are clinging to rumors of a "Durango Dual GPU" set up. If this were true than why haven't any reliable sources pegged it as such?

The Milky Way SoCoC (Systems on Chips on Chip)

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The Milky Way SoCoC (Systems on Chip on Chip)

I genuinely hope Microsoft surprise us. They don't have to pull any super-secret-never-before-heard-of hardware in the next Xbox, but I'd really like to be astounded on the software and services side.

 

[Proelite]

Maybe not 2x nicer,but considarably yes. And while sonys console might have higher tdp, bom wont be much of diference. That hefty amount of esram and dmes will take alot of die space, so apus/soc will be of similar size and only difference will be RAM type and performance. sony picked better system architecture and bite the gddr5 price. MS didnt and they will have weaker system that is also more complex just because they are cheap.

How does this work out again?

 

[bkilian]

Maybe not 2x nicer,but considarably yes. And while sonys console might have higher tdp, bom wont be much of diference. That hefty amount of esram and dmes will take alot of die space, so apus/soc will be of similar size and only difference will be RAM type and performance. sony picked better system architecture and bite the gddr5 price. MS didnt and they will have weaker system that is also more complex just because they are cheap.

Difference in BOM costs of 8GB DDR3 and 8GB GDDR5: About $100 or so. Assuming, as you said, the rest of the system is a wash, that's still a significant difference in BOM, which either Sony has to eat, or the customer has to pay for.

 

[expletive]

We can infer from bkilin that a lot of the stuff we saw last night is what Ms was banking on being the difference between the two consoles.

Is all this due to Sony going from 4Gb to 8GB? That wipes out everything MS was 'banking on'? If MS' strategy was this reliant on what a competitor puts in their console, specifically if its 4GB or 8GB of RAM, then wasn't it a dreadful strategy to begin with?

Difference in BOM costs of 8GB DDR3 and 8GB GDDR5: About $100 or so. Assuming, as you said, the rest of the system is a wash, that's still a significant difference in BOM, which either Sony has to eat, or the customer has to pay for.

Your reply implies, to me at least, that aside from price you think he's right?

 

[Ruskie]

Difference in BOM costs of 8GB DDR3 and 8GB GDDR5: About $100 or so. Assuming, as you said, the rest of the system is a wash, that's still a significant difference in BOM, which either Sony has to eat, or the customer has to pay for.

I agree, and if they can't "eat" it and MS comes out swinging (say 299$) then they are in though position. They either lose money or customers pay more which would mean bigger price point. But then again, if they don't pack PSEye in every box it could be much closer in price because MS is packing Kinect in every box.

I just think that MS lacked "killer instincts" in this case. They made truly baffling decisions that could cost them marketshare, but also fanbase mindshare as they go in "no mans land" of neither core gamers or casual ones. You simply can't be synonym for good hardware performance and 3rd party advantage for two gens just to give that advantage to your competitor, I think there is not enough casuals in the world that will replace core gamers if they decide that Sony gives them a better deal (and everything points at that being the case).

It will be curious to see what happens at MS if this fails. It would be their 4th fuckup in the row after Surface, Windows Mobile and 8, and I would be very surprised if Steve B. doesn't leave. I'm kinda disappointed that so many great guys (You included) that loved gaming and tech left MS after they gained big chunk of marketshare and their vision clearly steered away from the original plan of DX team that built it. I'm willing to bet this MS board would have opted for other "Xbox" when two design philosophies where proposed 14 years ago.

This is garbage thread so I let a bit of a steam, so don't take criticism towards MS the wrong way as I'm sure audio chip will be mighty fine :smile:

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My thoughts exactly. I was anticipating more here but perhaps Sony simply went for "good enough" for next to nothing to produce.

What else would the cameras need to be? It only needs dual cameras and 4 mics. It's exactly what I was expecting, 2 mobile-spec cameras in a bar. Although I hope there's some well engineered 'clip' to secure it on the TV.

 

[french toast]

Difference in BOM costs of 8GB DDR3 and 8GB GDDR5: About $100 or so. Assuming, as you said, the rest of the system is a wash, that's still a significant difference in BOM, which either Sony has to eat, or the customer has to pay for.

Yep..also heat/cooling solutions.

If kinect with every box...sony has to match (more ££) or concede therefor giving Microsoft a selling point.

 

[patsu]

What else would the cameras need to be? It only needs dual cameras and 4 mics. It's exactly what I was expecting, 2 mobile-spec cameras in a bar. Although I hope there's some well engineered 'clip' to secure it on the TV.

Yeah, you can see the clip from one of the photos.

In terms of the parts, this is as cheap and good as it gets. I think the only interesting thing is the camera specs (resolution, sensitivity, transfer rate and framerate). As long as the camera can hit 120Hz like the original PSEye, the most important components are the software. Sony can bundle this thing if it wants to. IMHO, it's better than built-in cameras because my PS3 is behind the TV.

The player may need to calibrate the sensors before every game, and that's it. We have a 3D cam for communication and gaming !

 

[Strange]

Yep..also heat/cooling solutions.

If kinect with every box...sony has to match (more ££) or concede therefor giving Microsoft a selling point.

Sandia Cooling! The heatsink-fan!


I don't think PS Eye 2.0 needs to do too much to shave off the selling point of the kinect 2.0. And we know that PSeye 2.0 should be quite cheap to make. (simple and cheap parts really)
As long as it works modestly well most consumers won't be able to see a drastic difference between them.

 

[Dave Glue]

It will be curious to see what happens at MS if this fails. It would be their 4th fuckup in the row after Surface, Windows Mobile and 8, and I would be very surprised if Steve B. doesn't leave.

8? Huh? It's sold 60 million copies! It's a huge success! Don't forget Winphone sales are up 400% too!

Seriously though assuming the rumors are correct about Durango, the largest detriment against the PS4 IMO is not the DDR2+sram vs GDDR5, it's that MS might actually reserve 3GB for the OS and background tasks.

That sounds insanely high to me (I have trouble believing it), and it would significantly impact the difference between the two if Sony's OS only takes up .5-1GB - more so than the bandwidth limitations I believe.

But yeah...would be somewhat amusing to see the next Xbox fail, when MS has put so much effort into rebranding everything entertainment related with Xbox, assuming the brand will have a positive association years from now. Quite an assumption when the torch has changed hands in the console king wars many times.

 

[Proelite]

8? Huh? It's sold 60 million copies! It's a huge success! Don't forget Winphone sales are up 400% too!

Seriously though assuming the rumors are correct about Durango, the largest detriment against the PS4 IMO is not the DDR2+sram vs GDDR5, it's that MS might actually reserve 3GB for the OS and background tasks.

That sounds insanely high to me (I have trouble believing it), and it would significantly impact the difference between the two if Sony's OS only takes up .5-1GB - more so than the bandwidth limitations I believe.

But yeah...would be somewhat amusing to see the next Xbox fail, when MS has put so much effort into rebranding everything entertainment related with Xbox, assuming the brand will have a positive association years from now. Quite an assumption when the torch has changed hands in the console king wars many times.

If it fails, it won't be because single issues such as inferior specs or multi-plats, it'll be because of myriad of issues including usability, price, first party games, etc.

 

[MrFox]

If it fails, it won't be because single issues such as inferior specs or multi-plats, it'll be because of myriad of issues including usability, price, first party games, etc.

Why is the WiiU failing right now?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Why is the WiiU failing right now?

Price, crappy online, lack of games, consumer confusion about wtf it is.

Do you think it's because games are so much better looking on ps360, because they are not.

 

[MrFox]

Price, crappy online, lack of games, consumer confusion about wtf it is.

Do you think it's because games are so much better looking on ps360, because they are not.

Price is fine, it's 299 which is considered the best possible launch price.
It also has a reasonable number of games for a launch window (look up history).

No... wait... you mean the price versus the low specs it has? Okay I agree.

 

[(((interference)))]

Firstly, there are way too many next gen threads, it is very annoying trying to follow the different, usually redundant strands of conversation.

This is assuming Microsofts Durango OS was built for a core gaming console and not a version of Windows. Even their Windows RT tablets have a minimum requirement of 2 GB RAM

It is a version of Windows, it'll be Windows 8 based (only Metro, no desktop) so they can play Win8 apps/games, IE etc

I think you are making a good point here; we don't know when the change happened.

It's a recent change, even most devs didn't know til the announcement:

Sony revealed that its new console ships with 8GB of GDDR5 RAM, not the 4GB we previously reported. It was a pleasant surprise not just for us, but also for many game developers out there working on PS4 titles now and completely unaware of the upgrade - a final flourish to the design seemingly added in at the last moment to make PlayStation 4 the most technologically advanced games console of the next gaming era.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4

 

[AlphaWolf]

Price is fine, it's 299 which is considered the best possible launch price.
It also has a reasonable number of games for a launch window (look up history).

No... wait... you mean the price versus the low specs it has? Okay I agree.

Ya its the most expensive console but doesn't really set itself apart. And it's not the quantity of games, it's quality, it doesn't have wii sports or some killer title.