NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[patsu]

Ok, 'afterthought' was a poorly chosen word. Let's say that in terms of technical capabilities, Sony were less lavish (than they could have been) with this component.

And as I said above, it may be we don't know everything about the DualShock4 yet. Perhaps they will implement sensors to measure your blood pressure or how hard your gripping it. I wouldn't get too carried away by the patents, Sony have a medical products division that could be responsible for some of these.

Those patents I mentioned are gaming specific, except for the brain wave controller. ^_^

It is not necessary to spend much on PSEye since they are interested in its raw data primarily. No motorized stand, no built-in chip, no power supply because camera, USB and compute technologies have improved. Use the main unit !

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Re the clip comment, is this so you can attach it to the top of your screen?

Yep. It'll need some way to position it with the TV. PSEye has often been used by people hanging off the top with the heavy cable counterbalancing down the back of the TV, but it's hardly pretty. However, a one-size-fits-all solution could be hard. So I'm certainly curious what Sony do in that regard. If it's just a stand, it'll be problematic to set up for plenty of users - not everyone has a nice bit of shelf in front of their TV to stand a camera (plus computer-vision cameras typically work better high up, I believe).

 

[Xenio]

So its not a linear "the Durango GPU has 30% less TF so 30% less pixels evens things out" equation?

(aside from any IQ drop that the lower res is responsible for as you point out)

for what I know and understand, hud plane can be made of 4 tiles and this can improve performances at least for bandwidth and memory (framebuffer tiles? in this case you save shading performances too)

Each display plane can consist of up to four image rectangles, covering different parts of the screen. The use of multiple screen rectangles can reduce memory and bandwidth consumption when a layer contains blank or occluded areas.

example, hud cover 30% on screen, can we assume that we're saving 30% in framebuffer tiled memory, bandwidth and shading, or in other words we have additional 30% resources to improve graphic?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

example, hud cover 30% on screen, can we assume that we're saving 30% in framebuffer tiled memory, bandwidth and shading, or in other words we have additional 30% resources to improve graphic?

No. Using tiles in the composite means less BW and compute (computer being immaterial if it's hardware designed for full-screen blends) when blending screens because you don't need to blend so many pixels. But the game still needs to render the world for the UI to be merged with. If you want to shave off rendering, you need a system that can selectively render parts of the screen, choosing not to render the areas under HUS elements. That'd work in a small TBDR, but I see nothing to suggest Durango can intrinsically skip parts of the 3D scene. The blending hardware is just talking about its own operation and resources.

I also question any HUD that's consuming 30% of an HD screen!

 

[TheWretched]

Also, a lot of games use semi transparent HUDs, where you can't just not render the parts behind it. This is quite an edge case for optimization, really.

 

[Xenio]

That'd work in a small TBDR, but I see nothing to suggest Durango can intrinsically skip parts of the 3D scene. The blending hardware is just talking about its own operation and resources.

exactly
I was thinking about tile based deferred rendering from the very start I was reading about a 32 MB poll and after when some details from DME's was leaked;
my theory is that in this case a developer can skip some tiles if they are covered by hud plane

if the game uses a standard not-tile base engine it of course can't work, you've to render the whole scene and some part of it will be useless rendered and covered


another thing that is not clear is:
the second game-plane can be used to show some 3d render or only 2d graphics?
this is a very important detail for me

Also, a lot of games use semi transparent HUDs, where you can't just not render the parts behind it. This is quite an edge case for optimization, really.

nope

think being inside a car, aeroplane, mech etc
you can even save 50%+ pixels

 

[Xenio]

double post, sorry

 

[AlphaWolf]

Even 300$ seems too much .

This kind of ridiculous rhetoric is getting on my nerves. MS sold 281k units of 8year old hardware at that price point in January in the US alone. Hardware that is some small fraction of the performance of durango.

Technical specs don't do much for most consumers (fanboy forum warriors excluded), if the games look close and one box is $100 cheaper, that will be a big deal.

Until you can prove the games on durango will look significantly worse, you, and others need to dial down the DOOMED rhetoric a few notches.

 

[Tap In]

This kind of ridiculous rhetoric is getting on my nerves. MS sold 281k units of 8year old hardware at that price point in January in the US alone. Hardware that is some small fraction of the performance of durango.

Technical specs don't do much for most consumers (fanboy forum warriors excluded), if the games look close and one box is $100 cheaper, that will be a big deal.

Until you can prove the games on durango will look significantly worse, you, and others need to dial down the DOOMED rhetoric a few notches.

thank you... this nonsense babbling of doom is ridiculous.

reminds me of the "CELL will dominate all" and look how that turned out.

 

[patsu]

exactly
I was thinking about tile based deferred rendering from the very start I was reading about a 32 MB poll and after when some details from DME's was leaked;
my theory is that in this case a developer can skip some tiles if they are covered by hud plane

if the game uses a standard not-tile base engine it of course can't work, you've to render the whole scene and some part of it will be useless rendered and covered


another thing that is not clear is:
the second game-plane can be used to show some 3d render or only 2d graphics?
this is a very important detail for me




nope

think being inside a car, aeroplane, mech etc
you can even save 50%+ pixels

Not taxing enough me think... The GPU is very very good at this sort of work -- unless it's something like HD video decoding or Kinect processing + overlay over the game.

 

[Aeoniss]

http://imgur.com/a/FS86x

Thoughts?

My first impression is this demo was kind of thrown together and Epic didn't have much time to really prepare it right.

 

[Xenio]

http://imgur.com/a/FS86x

Thoughts?

My first impression is this demo was kind of thrown together and Epic didn't have much time to really prepare it right.

it's the same demo everytime, all about particles

 

[SanGreal]

it's the same demo everytime, all about particles

there is no dof in the ps4 shot and the textures and lighting look worse

 

[Aeoniss]

it's the same demo everytime, all about particles

..Ok, but putting a PC tech demo on the PS4 without sitting down and fine tuning it for the platform can also hinder results is all I'm saying.

 

[Xenio]

..Ok, but putting a PC tech demo on the PS4 without sitting down and fine tuning it for the platform can also hinder results is all I'm saying.

every demo now it's on a early stage, but UE is notorious for being easily adapted to all platforms
as the time goes by it's clear that games will be better and better

 

[Cyan]

Maybe not 2x nicer,but considarably yes. And while sonys console might have higher tdp, bom wont be much of diference. That hefty amount of esram and dmes will take alot of die space, so apus/soc will be of similar size and only difference will be RAM type and performance. sony picked better system architecture and bite the gddr5 price. MS didnt and they will have weaker system that is also more complex just because they are cheap.

I partially agree with that.

They say necessity is the mother of invention. And if Durango is finally a TBDR machine, then I would say it features some pretty elegant solutions.

If you meet a need you sharpen your wits and inventiveness...

Aside from that, if the rumoured specs of Durango are true it is certain that it is weaker than PS4, but it is still exponentially more capable than the consoles of this generation.

Again... another IF, -not sure about the specs yet- and if its 3D graphics architecture is meant to run a TBDR machine then the approach is totally different.

I agree with you the complexity of the machine is quite considerable, but taking into account that latency and use of the eSRAM is what apparently Durango is about, then it can kind of make sense.

 

[TheWretched]

nope

think being inside a car, aeroplane, mech etc
you can even save 50%+ pixels

So your current racing and flying games have fully static 2D images of the cockpit, like NFS had (yes, the first one)?

 

[Xenio]

So your current racing and flying games have fully static 2D images of the cockpit, like NFS had (yes, the first one)?

where do you read that the second game-plane is static?
I think the opposite
we don't even know if we can have 3d on second game plane, but in the worst case, a 2d image, you can change colors, luminosity, make it rumble, vibrate etc withour rendering, only easy post-processing


ND. Vgleaks team wrote to me that the next article will cover the durango's CPU, interesting

 

[Shifty Geezer]

where do you read that the second game-plane is static?
I think the opposite

You implied that saying inside a vehicle can save lots of render space, suggesting you meant it as static HUD graphics. I think you mean the front plane rendering inside the car can occlude the back graphics, so those graphics needn't be rendered under the front plane. If so, that's counterproductive. Any 3D world content wants to be rendered completely in the world for correct lighting and shading. The only value in rendering the main graphics across 2 planes seems to be a low-res layer, for distance backgrounds or particles or something. The savings from going to a partial render would probably be pretty minimal compared to the whole render workload. Like, 2%.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You could render at different refresh so not just lower rez.