NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[Shifty Geezer]

We've seen extremely .. nothing aimed outside of the core gamer, if you ask me. Only Mm and Johnathan Blow's projects may appeal outside that demographic.

But that was clearly not the point here. I think more casual stuff will come later.

I agree. This was a gamer event for the gaming press, and Sony presented exactly the message they needed. they can go on to communicate different perspectives in other shows and events. I suppose one other reason to do this is 2 hours already covered that can be skipped at E3, so 2 hours at E3 will be 4 hours total presentation time.

We still know very little. I know people hate to hear that and want to persist with comparisons anyway, but its true. Until we see the rest of PS4 and the whole of Durango, this thread remains ridiculous.

 

[Ruskie]

I bet they wish they didn't go after superdae now, his BS is just what Microsoft need after last night.

Yea, like that matters...No body outside few gaming/tech forums has heard of superdae.

 

[DJ12]

Anyone interested in next gen knows who he is.

 

[temesgen]

Again with SuperDae.
Kotaku has published Durnago specs based on SuperDae info and says "the specs you're about to see here are those for the final retail units that consumers will be getting their hands on." and the specs have 8GB of DDR3.
16Gb dev kit for Orbis surfaces long time ago suggesting that the 8GB of GDDR5 is not a last minute change at all.
Kotaku itself said that Orbis had 8GB at one point.

I think you are making a good point here; we don't know when the change happened.

 

[french toast]

Way too many next gen threads going on for my liking. ..confusing as hell.

Anyway how is Microsoft going to react to this?
Its a far too late in the game for silicon changes this late in the day....they already have 8gb of slow ram..and a significantly weaker gpu in pure horsepower terms. ..what can they do?

Well for one the tdp is likely very low for durango/720 (120w system??)
-could they bump up clocks to try to close the gap? It would sacrifice yeild yes but microsoft likely has the BOM advantage anyhow..and the gpu is not going to be large...gcn already clocks over 1ghz with ease anyhow...so yields wouldnt be affected too much right?

-compete on price. ..microsoft has BOM advantage of what..150 $?? That kind of launch price difference could be hard on sony as they sort out financials..
.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Anyone interested in next gen knows who he is.

No. People who read forums know who he is, which limits it to a very small number of people. Lots of people follow specs and info via the gaming press and while he may have been mentioned at a place or 2. None of those people will have a clue who he is.

 

[babybumb]

Only EDGE saw 8GB coming.

I cant see how MS could announce the DRM stuff which EDGE is 100% sure. That would be insane

 

[Dave Glue]

Only EDGE saw 8GB coming.

I cant see how MS could announce the DRM stuff which EDGE is 100% sure. That would be insane

Like introducing a Tegra3 tablet at $500 with 768p res in late 2012 with 16gb of usable space and a $100 additional keyboard that's advertised as its main feature and wondering why it doesn't fly off the shelf?

Like introducing your "new" mobile platform to replace the "old" (2 years) version, and absolutely butchering the media service transition to Xbox in the process?

Like plastering ads all over your paid console gaming service near the end of its lifespan with a mandatory update? Or in the new apps for your new OS, and raising the price back up to $200 in an age of free OS updates?

Like believing people will pay $100 yearly for Office on their home PC's, and tie the only retail version available to one PC for its entire life, to never be moved?

Yeah, I'd be surprised too. But after watching MS these past 2 years...only a little.

 

[bkilian]

We can infer from bkilin that a lot of the stuff we saw last night is what Ms was banking on being the difference between the two consoles.

Let's be honest Kinect is probably going to be better than PS eyes but everything else is in Sonys favour.

Not everything. TDP and BOM are going to be heavily in MS's favour. This means they can possibly ship a much smaller, quieter box for almost half the price. The PS4 is nicer, but is it 2x nicer?

 

[pjbliverpool]

Not everything. TDP and BOM are going to be heavily in MS's favour. This means they can possibly ship a much smaller, quieter box for almost half the price. The PS4 is nicer, but is it 2x nicer?

It's a nice core games machine (the traditional games console), I don't think their's much doubt of that now.

But I still think Microsoft has the potential to capture a bigger audience with some of the technology they're packing. As long as it's able to play all the same games as the PS4 and have them look almost as good (probably indistinguishable to most) then it still has a very good shot IMO, especially if they can undercut PS4 in price, even by only £50.

Doing that may relegate PS4 to the realms of hardcore "nerdy" gamers only in public percption while Xbox goes on to be the new Wii, i.e. the new "cool" console for all the family.

I do feel sorry for Nintendo with WiiU though. What were they thinking??!

 

[wco81]

If they wanted to save money, they can take out the motion-controller stuff.

Outside of dance games, what are they good for?

A lot of people have their TVs set up for them to sit back on the couch.

 

[Yemeth]

If the noise difference is going to be as with original 360 and fat PS3 (only the other way around, new Xbox much quieter than the PS4), for me that would be a big reason to either go for MS or to wait until a more quiet revision of the PS4 comes out.

Beginning of this gen I wanted to buy the Xbox, only when I heard the how loud it was, while playing at my brothers, I immediately scratched that plan...

Very interest to hear () how these factors will turn out. Not to mention the launch games, I think we will get nice ones from Naught Dog, Media Molecule etc. .

 

[liolio]

Not everything. TDP and BOM are going to be heavily in MS's favour. This means they can possibly ship a much smaller, quieter box for almost half the price. The PS4 is nicer, but is it 2x nicer?

the picture is incomplete for now, but TCO, policies wrt used games, and what the system do with and without a subscription, can clear any price advantage MSFT would have.

If there is truth to the rumors, I think that MSFT may find out that EU is not US and Japan being Japan it would be a non match in 2 of the 3 main market, Japan and EU.
Even in US (again if rumors are true) I'm iffy about public reaction and acceptance.

Overall till the rumors are debunked (officially or not), as we have to have a basis for a discussion, I think that MSFT is not just playing with fire but borderline suicidal.

 

[eastmen]

You guys are assuming that ms are only able to swotch gears yesterday but ms may have know the majority of the ps4 specs months ago and have already made changes.

There are gpus that can run both ddr and gddr and perhaps the durango is as capable. As others have said they could also play around with clock speeds and there is allways a slim chance that the can increase the esram to 64megs which will also increase bamdwith.

There is also a chance the the specs have allways been wrong.

One thing for sure is the ms event will be something to behold either to watch them crash and burn or run over sony

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So what's your take on the revealed PlayStation Eye, a 'sensor bar' conifguration with stereocameras about 3" apart? Sony throwing money away on an expensive and inefficient solution?

Cheap.

 

[patsu]

Yes, I am kinda curious what's in the dual cam.

For motion gaming, they would want the unprocessed, raw video data quickly. This sounds inexpensive.

For video conferencing and photo taking, they will probably process the image with the GPU.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

My comment was specifically directed at DSoup who said that an external unit would be too costly and it'd far cheaper and more intelligent for Sony to put the cameras in the base unit.

I've not said anything about Sony's intelligence, I did say sensors in the main unit would be cheaper. They would. And I did say they'd include it if it were cheap. Sure looks cheap.

 

[dagamer]

You guys are assuming that ms are only able to swotch gears yesterday but ms may have know the majority of the ps4 specs months ago and have already made changes.

There are gpus that can run both ddr and gddr and perhaps the durango is as capable. As others have said they could also play around with clock speeds and there is allways a slim chance that the can increase the esram to 64megs which will also increase bamdwith.

There is also a chance the the specs have allways been wrong.

One thing for sure is the ms event will be something to behold either to watch them crash and burn or run over sony

This is called "wishful thinking". And again, playing with clock speeds is likely lead to other problems down the road, much like the switch to lead-free solder in the 360 meant a $1.15 billion write-off in warranties with the original 360. You have to find ways to deal with more heat and lower yields on top of the fact that the PS4 already has supposedly more compute units.

 

[patsu]

I've not said anything about Sony's intelligence, I did say sensors in the main unit would be cheaper. They would. And I did say they'd include it if it were cheap. Sure looks cheap.

Yea, no motorized parts or separate power cable also. Sony will optimize the BOM cost to be as cheap as possible, but robust to stand falls.

 

[Ruskie]

Not everything. TDP and BOM are going to be heavily in MS's favour. This means they can possibly ship a much smaller, quieter box for almost half the price. The PS4 is nicer, but is it 2x nicer?

Maybe not 2x nicer,but considarably yes. And while sonys console might have higher tdp, bom wont be much of diference. That hefty amount of esram and dmes will take alot of die space, so apus/soc will be of similar size and only difference will be RAM type and performance. sony picked better system architecture and bite the gddr5 price. MS didnt and they will have weaker system that is also more complex just because they are cheap.