NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

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Shuhei Yoshida of Sony Worldwide Studios teased that on Twitter a couple of weaks ago. On paper Orbis GPU looks very powerful compared to Durango, the new PlayStation might be supporting an optional 3D VR-device like Oculus Rift (or a HMZ-T) with 2x720p/30FPS.

I am surprised they haven't been acquired yet by Sony or MS. Perhaps they don't want to be.
 
Main difference is free online gaming.

Instant (12 or 6 free) game collection and monthly "free" game are probably the main draw for PS+.

Monthly discounts is next. These are different from the seasonal PSN discounts. I think Sony also dropped Music Unlimited subscription to $1/month for PS+ users.

Fan services like early access seem popular too. Cloud storage for locked game saves is the one that got me. Automated update and download are just convenience features so the updates don't ever get in your way.

I haven't heard any Gaffer rave about the full game trial yet. I think this should be replaced by Gaikai game trial.

PSN+ is not free. Live has cloud storage.
 
Yes but it is an inherent part of PSN, which is inherited by PS+. XBL Gold has it but not Silver.

And the discussion is what psn+ offers that live doesn't. Live still offers advantages you cannot get with psn+ as well, but it's really not worth rehashing it'll just get the usual suspects worked up.
 
The time-of-flight product that Microsoft purchased was meant to cost less than $100. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZCam

The listed specs for the ZCam are pretty old, so in that time it could have improved a bit.

Yep, oddly the only ToF-style camera which may have been 'cheap' was purchased by microsoft and supposedly abandoned shortly thereafter. Was it too ambitious? or simply a waste of development time when the primesense solution provides a "good enough" output, but at far lower cost?

In practice, I'm not sure it makes any difference, but I'm pretty sure they'll announce "kinect+" rather than "kinect: ToF edition".
 
I don´t agree with him. What he pretends is what people like bkillian and most members of this forum hate, the approaching to the Android and IOS way...
Hey, I happen to agree with him on some points. It is far too hard to publish an app/game on xbox.

I think they use a neural network based algorithm for tracking joints. Mega training of the network could be made when users start effectively playing with Kinect 2 if the system is ready for it.
It is a machine learning algorithm, but I think it's bayesian classification, as opposed to neural network. I could be wrong though. It's pretty heft computer science stuff, whichever way it works, especially since they actually generate the training set.
Yep, oddly the only ToF-style camera which may have been 'cheap' was purchased by microsoft and supposedly abandoned shortly thereafter. Was it too ambitious? or simply a waste of development time when the primesense solution provides a "good enough" output, but at far lower cost?

In practice, I'm not sure it makes any difference, but I'm pretty sure they'll announce "kinect+" rather than "kinect: ToF edition".
I'm pretty sure they won't say a word about the technology inside the kinect, ither than how much better it is than the first version.
 
The time-of-flight product that Microsoft purchased was meant to cost less than $100. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZCam

The listed specs for the ZCam are pretty old, so in that time it could have improved a bit.
I'm not sure but I think ZCam was just a gating to isolate the subject from the background. Don't forget they also purchased Canesta which was a real ToF cam. It's possible both were just for the patents, not the technology.
 
Shuhei Yoshida of Sony Worldwide Studios teased that on Twitter a couple of weaks ago. On paper Orbis GPU looks very powerful compared to Durango, the new PlayStation might be supporting an optional 3D VR-device like Oculus Rift (or a HMZ-T) with 2x720p/30FPS.

30fps is very, very weak for VR. Weak enough to make it pretty much completely unusable.

For headache-free VR, you almost certainly need 100+ Hz displays. Ideally much more.
 
I'm pretty sure they won't say a word about the technology inside the kinect, other than how much better it is than the first version.

I guess it depends on the marketing strategy.

If they wanted to build interest within the tech community, then hyping "kinect2 for windows" would give them a certain amount of free press.

But honestly, we'll probably just get fed "much higher resolution", "more pixels" and "oh look - Justin Bieber!" ;).
 
Hey, I happen to agree with him on some points. It is far too hard to publish an app/game on xbox.

It is a machine learning algorithm, but I think it's bayesian classification, as opposed to neural network. I could be wrong though. It's pretty heft computer science stuff, whichever way it works, especially since they actually generate the training set.
I'm pretty sure they won't say a word about the technology inside the kinect, ither than how much better it is than the first version.

Yap, that machine learning system is supremely impressive. The hands free speech recognition too. As long as they use these tech for the right type of games and apps, they should be able to piece together an interesting experience, especially under Phil Harrison's guidance.
 
I find it hard to compare and to extrapolate a potential market. There are numbers floating around that from 76mill xbox sold, only 24mill bought kinect. I am surprised that it is even this high, but wonder if this maybe represents the 'casual' part of the xbox users? What about the other 50mill gamers?
The amount and importance of casual gaming is completly overblown anyway.
Some simple math: Microsoft and Sony sold 140 million consoles in this generation.20 milllion Kinect and 15 million move units were sold too.
So 105 million players were not interested in motion controls.More people then those that bought the Wii. Lets not forget that not every Wii buyer is a casual too.Some people bought this console just for Nintendo exclsives. Lets assume the number of those people is 20 million. Because thats the amount of people that bought the Gamecube.So Nintendo won like 70 million people with motion control.Seems like core gamers are still the majority and most likely also spend far more money for games and services like Xbox live.
If Microsofts bet is casual gaming,there are in for a nasty suprise.
 
The amount and importance of casual gaming is completly overblown anyway.
Some simple math: Microsoft and Sony sold 140 million consoles in this generation.20 milllion Kinect and 15 million move units were sold too.
So 105 million players were not interested in motion controls.More people then those that bought the Wii. Lets not forget that not every Wii buyer is a casual too.Some people bought this console just for Nintendo exclsives. Lets assume the number of those people is 20 million. Because thats the amount of people that bought the Gamecube.So Nintendo won like 70 million people with motion control.Seems like core gamers are still the majority and most likely also spend far more money for games and services like Xbox live.
If Microsofts bet is casual gaming,there are in for a nasty suprise.

5 years ago most people did not own a smart phone, therefore they did not want one, right? The fact that someone does not own something does not correlate to a lack of interest. Availability, cost, opportunity and perceived value have all changed. I'm not suggesting kinect will become as ubiquitous as the smart phone, but your napkin math adds up to nothing but musings from your rectum.
 
The amount and importance of casual gaming is completly overblown anyway.
Some simple math: Microsoft and Sony sold 140 million consoles in this generation.20 milllion Kinect and 15 million move units were sold too.
So 105 million players were not interested in motion controls.More people then those that bought the Wii. Lets not forget that not every Wii buyer is a casual too.Some people bought this console just for Nintendo exclsives. Lets assume the number of those people is 20 million. Because thats the amount of people that bought the Gamecube.So Nintendo won like 70 million people with motion control.Seems like core gamers are still the majority and most likely also spend far more money for games and services like Xbox live.
If Microsofts bet is casual gaming,there are in for a nasty suprise.
Number manipulation, my favourite. It's 24 million kinect, so you're down to 101 million. Let's say that the real core gamers, the 20 million that bought the consoles in the first two years, own both, so we're down to 81 million, a lot lower than the 106 million people who are interested in motion gaming...

Anyone can manipulate the numbers to "prove" their particular point. Since we don't know the reasons those 81 million people did not get a Kinect or Move, we can't say they wouldn't be interested if the console came with one by default. Pretty much everyone buying a console 2-3 years in would probably be considered a "casual gamer" in some context.
 
Number manipulation, my favourite. It's 24 million kinect, so you're down to 101 million. Let's say that the real core gamers, the 20 million that bought the consoles in the first two years, own both, so we're down to 81 million, a lot lower than the 106 million people who are interested in motion gaming...

Anyone can manipulate the numbers to "prove" their particular point. Since we don't know the reasons those 81 million people did not get a Kinect or Move, we can't say they wouldn't be interested if the console came with one by default. Pretty much everyone buying a console 2-3 years in would probably be considered a "casual gamer" in some context.

For 2 years, Kinect was $150, and Move was $100. There's your reason. Even now, it's $89 and $69. Regardless, I can't remember a single add-on peripheral ever reaching the same levels of penetration except maybe the original DualShock controller for the PlayStation 1. And even then the number of games that actually required such a peripheral were few and far between.
 
Also, I'm a fan of Move for hardcore gaming as much as casual gaming. ;)

Definitely look forward to seeing next-gen versions of Move and Kinect and see how they have improved. For me personally, Move was one of the best things of the current generation. The fun I've had with games like Sports Champions 1+2, The Fight: Lights Out, Move Fitness (even better boxing than The Fight), Killzone 3, Infamous Festival of Blood, Tumble and so on have been really big highlights for me, and if they can get Kinect to work at about 1.8m distance and improve its tech, then that will definitely get more attention from me as well, as I certainly see the potential of that too (still like the human breakout from Sports Adventures).

And both make for far more friendly living room user interfaces. If Move were something that we'd have standard on PS3, I'd definitely hope to be able to control all RPGs and similar pointer friendly titles with that in the future.

EDIT: hehe, stolen from GAf:

http://www.abload.de/img/e3_microsoft_tds_v5j67sf.gif
 
5 years ago most people did not own a smart phone, therefore they did not want one, right?
Apples and Oranges. The difference is that the market share of new sold smartphones compared to simple mobiles
is far bigger then the 50 percent of consoles with motion control have now.
Also Wii sales are lower then then those of the "traditional consoles" for quite some time, and the Wiiu sells even less. Imagine people will start to buy less smartphones then mobiles....
Well, hopefully you see how much sense your comparison made.
The sucess of the Wii was nothing more then a short term hype and wont be repeated.
 
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