Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by DavidGraham, Jun 9, 2019.

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  1. anexanhume

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    RDNA’s reveal definitely came across as a mixed message as they tried to get grapples on the nomenclature to differentiate an architecture from its ISA.

    The only comment I can add is that perhaps the advent of CDNA will leave RDNA less constrained going forward.


    Sounds like he explained information that was already there versus unveiling new info.
     
    #3481 anexanhume, Mar 7, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
  2. JoeJ

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    I hope so for him.
    Confirming such options to be real would be... something different than speculating about public patents, eventually.
     
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  3. chris1515

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    Maybe it was a guy talking on anandtech.

    https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ray-tracing-is-in-all-next-gen-consoles.2571546/#post-39954331

    https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ray-tracing-is-in-all-next-gen-consoles.2571546/#post-39954869

    It reminds me something here it seems Ps5 has it and probably XSX.
     
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  4. JoeJ

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    ... all this gives me hope RT could be fixed soon.
    I gave up, and just accepted to be stuck in the middle age for a long time.
    But there's hope...
    :)

    Unfortunately this also means loosing hope on 'Consoles force RT on minimal PC specs' could end the current situation of double work and uncertainty quickly.
    Will take a long time until vendors, API, and devs settle on something everybody agrees upon. On PC, RT remains a curse.
     
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  5. chris1515

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    I hope it will improve everywhere. And I think you are on something with your idea of surfel. I am not a dev but if I understand well the worst random memory access of raytracing are coming from diffuse GI and glossy reflection it seems here that surfel solve the problem. A great solution to use with raytracing for specular for example.

    https://graphics.pixar.com/library/PointBasedColorBleeding/paper.pdf
     
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  6. upnorthsox

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    Your post/link was worth a like just for being able to see this old post:
    Brilliant!!
     
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  7. DSoup

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    John Carmack not a fan of dedicated chips for audio or physics in nextgen consoles

     
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  8. chris1515

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    I heard exactly the opposite thing from an audio engineer meaning that when compute is centralized all is going inside the graphics and audio is treated as a second class citizen. Same for physics on GPU out of visual effect(particle, clothes simulation maybe fluid) it was never used in AAA and because of the weak Jaguar physics in-game were better on PS3/360.

    EDIT:


    And GPUs are not good on certain audio task

    EDIT: presentation about HSA and audio

    https://fr.slideshare.net/DevCentralAMD/mm-4085-laurentbetbeder



    [​IMG]
     
    #3488 chris1515, Mar 8, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
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  9. chris1515

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    Christophe Balestra(ex technical director of ND) told at an IGDA event at Paris where Quaz51(B3D forumer) was if he would change something about PS3, it would be to add an audio chip for not using SPUs for audio.
     
    #3489 chris1515, Mar 8, 2020
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  10. Shifty Geezer

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    Why? SPUs should be ideal for audio - the number of lame gags and ill-informed descriptions considering them just being DSPs.
     
  11. chris1515

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    Because it tooks ressources from graphics. For AAA games graphics is too important better to use CPU(x86 core) and DSP to do audio or CPU for physics. It was the Naughty dog technical director saying this he knows it work well but more SPU for graphics was better solution for him.

    I am not surprised audio engineer of Ninja Theory hype the audio chip.

    Never fight with ressources with graphics you will always lose out of audio for VR.
     
    #3491 chris1515, Mar 8, 2020
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  12. PSman1700

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    With the jaguar cores, that doesnt surprise anyone. With zen2 cores, 8 of them with ht, audio could be less of an issue.
    Also, dedicated audio module on the gpu from amd?
     
  13. McHuj

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    Audio HW blocks are very highly optimized and small in terms of silicon area. The cost of adding one is minuscule versus likely having to add additional GPU resources to process the audio and maintain rendering performance targets.
     
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  14. anexanhume

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    Carmack hasn't developed a game since Rage, which wasn't even in this console generation. I don't think he deserves to be held in the same technical esteem when it comes to games as he once was. There are other reasons I wish he would drop out of the spotlight, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.
     
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  15. manux

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    Is carmack in some kind of spotlight? Last I checked his twitter feed was full of AI stuff he is working on. Before that it was all about vr and oculus. Or are we at a point where even one opinion a year is too much and people have to be silenced?
     
  16. anexanhume

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    Who said anything about anyone being silenced?
     
  17. milk

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    Audio hardware is more of a no-brainer to me than RT hardware. 90% of games are garanteed to have at least half a dozen audio channels going off sinultaneously 90% of the time. And very few, if not none at all, devs are about to come up with some new way of doing audio. Game audio has been a pretty standardised "solved" problem for decades. I mean, there are different levels of fancyness in how a game decides which samples to play and their properties (volume, pitch modulation, reverb, speed, etc) but the actual playback of the samples is what I think can easily be HW accelerated with very little wasted sillicon. I just don't think we need hundreds of voices. If a game wants to go thar far, then it can of course do some of the audio in software and feed that software mix to one of the HW channels.
     
  18. BRiT

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    No one said silenced. They don't have to be silenced, just so everyone who reads it is well informed how out of touch they are with the topic at hand.
     
  19. anexanhume

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    The expectation of Atmos audio will probably be leveled on a lot of games this time around. A 5.1 mix isn't enough anymore.
     
  20. manux

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    So what exactly did you mean when you wrote:

    Is carmack somehow in spotlight and tweeting/argumenting/... actively about gaming? If he tweets once a year about some gaming related topic and that gets some people upset isn't that pretty much wanting to silence him so tweets go from 1 to zero.
     
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