With Unified GDDR6 pool only, several GBs of GDDR6 are saved for OS even YouTube/Netflix.
IMO it’s inefficient.
Fast nvme ssd can probably swap those apps into disk in a split second. No need to keep stuff in ram that is not being used.
With Unified GDDR6 pool only, several GBs of GDDR6 are saved for OS even YouTube/Netflix.
IMO it’s inefficient.
Not sure that offsets the GDDR6 reserve and it also doesn't mean that you will actually get a wider bus without it.Your DDR4 will need a seperate bus which takes pins and power which could have been used for a wider GDDR6 bus and thus a faster system.
Cheers
The ddr3 in ps4 and ps4 pro don't really count, it was a storage cache on the south bridge and it wasn't used by either the cpu nor the gpu. Both ps4 and pro were technically unified gddr5. It's been proven to be the most effective when dealing with a single SoC.In previous generations Sony have tried unique memory configurations for consoles:
PS1 EDO DRAM
PS2 Rambus DRAM and EDRAM
PSV wide-band VRAM
PS4 unified GDDR5 pool
PS4 Pro GDDR5 + DDR3
What else can Sony use?
IMO unified 16GB GDDR6 is not the most efficient and Sony tends to try special configurations.
For example
16GB GDDR6 for GPU
8GB DDR4 for CPU / OS & Apps
How about wide-band stacked RAM like PSVITA?
The vita method is impractical due to heating concerns. They mounted die face to face.In previous generations Sony have tried unique memory configurations for consoles:
PS1 EDO DRAM
PS2 Rambus DRAM and EDRAM
PSV wide-band VRAM
PS4 unified GDDR5 pool
PS4 Pro GDDR5 + DDR3
What else can Sony use?
IMO unified 16GB GDDR6 is not the most efficient and Sony tends to try special configurations.
For example
16GB GDDR6 for GPU
8GB DDR4 for CPU / OS & Apps
How about wide-band stacked RAM like PSVITA?
I think that’s what MS is doing with XSX. No need for clamshell though. 16Gb chips are readily available.Use a mix of higher density chips and shove the OS reservation on the higher addresses?
*cough*
Clamshell 2x1GB * 7 + 2x2GB*1 = 18GB = 16GB + 2GB OS (256-bit bus)
Fast nvme ssd can probably swap those apps into disk in a split second. No need to keep stuff in ram that is not being used.
Fast nvme ssd can probably swap those apps into disk in a split second. No need to keep stuff in ram that is not being used.
We will need some GDDR6 for currently executing App right?The ddr3 should be gone since there's super fast storage now, it won't need that buffer anymore. unless there's still a need for some ram buffer on the SB for other purposes, I can't imagine why.
We will need some GDDR6 for currently executing App right?
(Let’s say 500MB)
Does it mean the console should move some game data from GDDR6 RAM into SSD?
If assuming 16GB GDDR6@ 576GB/s andYour DDR4 will need a seperate bus which takes pins and power which could have been used for a wider GDDR6 bus and thus a faster system.
Cheers
The vita method is impractical due to heating concerns. They mounted die face to face.
Use a mix of higher density chips and shove the OS reservation on the higher addresses?
*cough*
Clamshell 2x1GB * 7 + 2x2GB*1 = 18GB = 16GB + 2GB OS (256-bit bus)
Theoretically, yes, but I have a hard time believing they couldn’t achieve similar results with memory die on the same side in a 2.5D package. I think a dual sided cooling solution would be more about improving the overall thermal sinking from main APU. The heatsink is not the only path of thermal relief for a die (there is some heat spreading in the board), but it’s certainly the best path.In your opinion, might the strange heatsink patent be a means of achieving something similar to the Vita method?
Seems mesh shading made the list. Who was asking about that previously? Or am I misremembering.
Some items in there may be worth tuning in for in day 2.
John Carmack not a fan of dedicated chips for audio or physics in nextgen consoles
This is the video I had lost track of over the years concerning Sony's initial review of the audio capabilities of the GPU. I don't think there's been a followup on this topic since from them.EDIT: presentation about HSA and audio
https://fr.slideshare.net/DevCentralAMD/mm-4085-laurentbetbeder
The Sony presentation did note there were deficiencies in the platform by making demands on various developers to code their own DSP solutions, and among other things they might do is use solutions with minimal decode complexity--which hurt memory footprint. There are also apparently licensing and other considerations that impacted the platform overall versus a competitor that had them as a given.Why? SPUs should be ideal for audio - the number of lame gags and ill-informed descriptions considering them just being DSPs.
There can be costs like variable latency in chaining different effects together, which is where flexibility or not having to dive through security layers can help despite hardware inefficiency.I mean, there are different levels of fancyness in how a game decides which samples to play and their properties (volume, pitch modulation, reverb, speed, etc) but the actual playback of the samples is what I think can easily be HW accelerated with very little wasted sillicon. I just don't think we need hundreds of voices. If a game wants to go thar far, then it can of course do some of the audio in software and feed that software mix to one of the HW channels.
Was EDO considered exotic? There were desktops that used it at the time.In previous generations Sony have tried unique memory configurations for consoles:
PS1 EDO DRAM
PS2 Rambus DRAM and EDRAM
PSV wide-band VRAM
PS4 unified GDDR5 pool
PS4 Pro GDDR5 + DDR3
The DDR3 pool's primary reason for existing is to serve as RAM for the separate OS running on the southbridge.The ddr3 in ps4 and ps4 pro don't really count, it was a storage cache on the south bridge and it wasn't used by either the cpu nor the gpu. Both ps4 and pro were technically unified gddr5. It's been proven to be the most effective when dealing with a single SoC.
Is this dual-sided cooling related to the patent where there's heatsink metal running up to the underside of the die? I feel like there needs to be some non-standard reason for not having enough space on the traditional side of the die for a good cooler, while the die is going to be challenged in terms of power delivery given how the footprint for existing ~100W+ die is typically maxed out with the IO and power/ground that would be creating the need for additional cooling in the first place.Theoretically, yes, but I have a hard time believing they couldn’t achieve similar results with memory die on the same side in a 2.5D package. I think a dual sided cooling solution would be more about improving the overall thermal sinking from main APU. The heatsink is not the only path of thermal relief for a die (there is some heat spreading in the board), but it’s certainly the best path.
Is this dual-sided cooling related to the patent where there's heatsink metal running up to the underside of the die? I feel like there needs to be some non-standard reason for not having enough space on the traditional side of the die for a good cooler, while the die is going to be challenged in terms of power delivery given how the footprint for existing ~100W+ die is typically maxed out with the IO and power/ground that would be creating the need for additional cooling in the first place.
It's one of their patents which includes a million "embodiments" and they put so many different methods that it was probably from an R&D team looking at different ways to improve cooling for multiple reasons (thickness, layout, efficiency, etc..) but without being for any particular product.The patent describes a variety of scenarios. One such situation is a multi-die package where components are embedded in, or placed on opposing sides of the package. That would create the need for heatsinks on both sides. Another application is one in which a radiating element is placed on the same side as the top of the PWB, and in this case you move the heatsink to the underside to avoid EMI. The third application is the one you posit, where a single die is cooled from both the top and the bottom.