News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Scott_Arm]

It's interesting that he says the console can run a game and multiple windows apps at the same time. Right now, you can run a game and have one app snapped. I wonder if that hints at a ui change with Windows 10?

 

[BRiT]

It's interesting that he says the console can run a game and multiple windows apps at the same time. Right now, you can run a game and have one app snapped. I wonder if that hints at a ui change with Windows 10?

I took it to include the tombstoned 4 other apps that you can quick switch to.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I took it to include the tombstoned 4 other apps that you can quick switch to.

I guess i'll have to look at the behaviour a little more closely when I get home. I couldn't really remember if the snapped app reloaded every time.

 

[Cyan]

This article titled "If Microsoft is serious about PC games Xbox One should be the real Steam machine" brings up some interesting points.

http://www.vg247.com/2015/01/22/if-...es-xbox-one-should-be-the-real-steam-machine/

Additionally, cross chat between X360, Xbox One and PC might be possible in the future:

 

[Dave Baumann]

1080p60 on VCE

Its scalable. Tonga, for instance, is capable of 2x 4K encodes. The links you provide speak more to the selection of capabilities chosen for those particular chips.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is there reason to think MS scaled down the VCE to cap it at 720p?

 

[Cyan]

Did we just find a use for the 2nd GCP? #1 is Game OS, so it would be busy streaming games. #2 is for system, so the X1 can still play Netflix, handle HDMI pass-through playing, apps, etc?

Yep only up to two votes - http://xbox.uservoice.com/forums/25...ce-controller-add-on-similar-to-razer-edge-co

Alas my name is not Dave Baumann nor 3dilettante, etc etc. I suppose it works like Smartglass in some way, probably the DMEs could be useful for that too.

 

[FarticusMaximus]

It's interesting that he says the console can run a game and multiple windows apps at the same time. Right now, you can run a game and have one app snapped. I wonder if that hints at a ui change with Windows 10?

You can have the Party and GameDVR (and Media Player?) apps running concurrently in the background with a game and a snapped app.

Maybe those are included in the 4 apps quoted?

 

[iroboto]

Alas my name is not Dave Baumann nor 3dilettante, etc etc. I suppose it works like Smartglass in some way, probably the DMEs could be useful for that too.

Xbox leverages reserves 1 of 8 hardware contexts for the system, I imagine that is what that context could be for.

 

[AlNom]

Is there reason to think MS scaled down the VCE to cap it at 720p?

I don't suppose it could be a "reservation" of sorts for possibly encoding multiple streams? Or maybe the 1080p60 mode really isn't that high quality?

Did we come to some consensus about the active memory & long-term HDD writing implications? It's not something I cared to follow too much.


On a side note, it would be nice if they could allow higher quality encodes for stored game clips with an external HDD attached.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Phil Spencer talking Windows 10 on Xbox One.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/23/78...new-dashboard-updates-and-how-windows-10-will

 

[Scott_Arm]

It's becoming fairly obvious, with Windows 10 on Xbox One, with the Xbox App on Windows 10 mirroring the monthly Xbox One updates and with cross-platform services like chat and multiplayer, that Xbox Two is just going to be a low-to-mid-PC that offers the stability of a very specific build (drivers) and perhaps a simplified ui.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

IDid we come to some consensus about the active memory & long-term HDD writing implications? It's not something I cared to follow too much.

I think it is almost certainly to minimise the impact on availability of I/O for the games themselves. Jumping from 720p to 1080p at a bitrate to make the resolution increase worthwhile isn't insignificant even at 30fps. At 60? Ouch.

Personally I'd like the option to be able to disable the streaming function. The thought my little PS4 wearing a hole in the platters of my HDD with its constant writing keeps me up at night. I'd be interested in know how they balance writes so they don't overly impact seek times. Or maybe it does and developers just have to Deal With It

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't suppose it could be a "reservation" of sorts for possibly encoding multiple streams? Or maybe the 1080p60 mode really isn't that high quality?

I have zero ideas! The docs I linked to said 3x 1080p30 encodes was possible, if that means anything.

Did we come to some consensus about the active memory & long-term HDD writing implications?

Do we ever come to consensus on anything?

On a side note, it would be nice if they could allow higher quality encodes for stored game clips with an external HDD attached.

Indeed. Allow for non-realtime recording and higher quality uploads that don't need to be realtime.

I think it is almost certainly to minimise the impact on availability of I/O for the games themselves. Jumping from 720p to 1080p at a bitrate to make the resolution increase worthwhile isn't insignificant even at 30fps. At 60? Ouch.

Personally I'd like the option to be able to disable the streaming function. The thought my little PS4 wearing a hole in the platters of my HDD with its constant writing keeps me up at night.

For streaming, how much HDD is needed? Can't it all be done in RAM? At least for game steaming this is an option. For the Twitch feeds and Share functions, the data needs to be saved for editing. And yes, that should have an option to disable it. For Win 10 game streaming though, I think 1080p60 shouldn't be an issue or affect HDD.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Is there reason to think MS scaled down the VCE to cap it at 720p?

I can't speak to the XBOX capabilities (maybe digging through the SDK would yield something), but Phil is quoted as saying 1080p60 is the target, so I would assume that the theoretical capabilities are there to support that. Even with fixed function hardware, though, there's still processing to be done that will place additional stress on internal and external bandwidths when multiple functions are taking place.

 

[Dave Baumann]

For streaming, how much HDD is needed? Can't it all be done in RAM? At least for game steaming this is an option. For the Twitch feeds and Share functions, the data needs to be saved for editing. And yes, that should have an option to disable it. For Win 10 game streaming though, I think 1080p60 shouldn't be an issue or affect HDD.

Generally speaking streaming is doing the same as the display pipeline. If you were playing a game on the TV connected to the console then as each frame is drawn the front buffer will be filled ready for a VSYNC call to go and pass that data from the memory in the front buffer down the display pipeline and across the physical interconnect. With streaming all you are doing is replacing the display pipeline with an encode pipeline, but then pushing that out through the network subsystem rather than the physical display connection; there may be some buffering required, but likely this can be handled on chip or at worst in memory.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Cross-Buy will also be an option for publishers. With cloud sync for saves, that could be pretty awesome.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/01/23/xbox-one-pc-cross-buy-to-be-handled-on-a-game-to-game-basis

 

[Deleted member 11852]

For streaming, how much HDD is needed? Can't it all be done in RAM? At least for game steaming this is an option.

I guess it depends on how much memory have Sony reserved. For what it's worth my early (launch) experiences with PS4's 720p video capture revealed Black Flag captures of about a minute long varying in size from a low of around 20mb upto 70mb. But it's not particularly good quality for 720p video - subjective I know but I rip and encode a lot of video so I'm used to a certain level of quality.

With streaming all you are doing is replacing the display pipeline with an encode pipeline, but then pushing that out through the network subsystem rather than the physical display connection; there may be some buffering required, but likely this can be handled on chip or at worst in memory.

Buffering - or rather the window of sequential frames used by the algorithm when encoding - can massively impact the size and quality of the resulting encode. If when encoding this frame you know that in five frames time that there will be a lot of motion in certain areas of the screen, you can better encode the next few frames. Obviously it's a luxury you can't afford when streaming video from one device to another where the controls are because of latency but if you're only interested in capturing the video, or to stream it, buffering more frames for a better encode won't be an issue. This is true for H.264, I don't know about H.265 but I imagine the concept of more data = smarter encode remains.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Kind of amazing how big a turnaround things have been for Microsoft on the gaming side, both PC and Xbox since Phil Spencer took over.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/22/windows-10-gaming-interview/

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Kind of amazing how big a turnaround things have been for Microsoft on the gaming side, both PC and Xbox since Phil Spencer took over.

Microsoft actually look like they're seriously about trying some of that strategic vertical integration that Apple do so well and that Sony still can't seem to nail. Not everything has to fit into a big master plan but when when network services complement your software and hardware, your software complements your hardware and your hardware works seamlessly together via software and networking, then it's easier for people to slide into single cohesive ecosystem and stay there.