News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[betan]

Everyone keeps saying "reduce the price, keep Kinect MS". Wise words, as $399 Kinectless SKU is probably a bad deal for most people.

However, if, at some point, they can afford to sell an SKU w/Kinect at $399, there is a good chance they can sell it at $299 or under with a mic only. Now this is a competitive advantage, assuming PS4 stays at its current price.

Of course, the real issue is finding good software for Kinect, which can solve a lot of problems without aggressive pricing.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

I agree about the not in touch with the fanbase/customers, when i saw the reveal i was CONVINCED that they had something else up in their sleeves. I simply didn't believe that it was the vision they would pursue and this is without the DRM debacle. I am now afraid that it was exactly the vision the presented at the reveal that they actually thought would be a hit, And what we have seen since is Microsoft scrambling to finding back to the XBOX nerve. But as we all know, a wounded Microsoft can actually be the best, they will throw money at the XB1 and make sure it will get it's place.. And that will be with Kinect in every box, they simply can't give up on that.

I think they viewed all their statistics about people watching netflix and pther media apps more than gaming, and assumed what people wanted was media device that plays games instead of a game device that does media stuff. Obviously, they were completely off base with that assumption, but it's the best reasoning I can come up with as to what the xb1 is compared to the 360 and og xbox.

And i agree with your wounded statement. This may be a positive for gamers if MS has realized that it's going to be games that sells the xb1. Hope to see a ton of new ips and the resurrection of ips rotting away.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Everyone keeps saying "reduce the price, keep Kinect MS". Wise words, as $399 Kinectless SKU is probably a bad deal for most people.

However, if, at some point, they can afford to sell an SKU w/Kinect at $399, there is a good chance they can sell it at $299 or under with a mic only. Now this is a competitive advantage, assuming PS4 stays at its current price.

Of course, the real issue is finding good software for Kinect, which can solve a lot of problems without aggressive pricing.

Seems like voice controls are far more important than motion controls. i don't think i've once used a gesture with the xb1. I do once in awhile use voice commands, like xbox record that.

They should have just built a mic into the controller. then have two skus. $399 w/o kinect, $499 w/ kinect. kinect would just be the camera and what not.

 

[dobwal]

I think the issue with the upscaler is that MS designed it assuming that next gen games would have excellent IQ at 720p, 900p etc. So the original framebuffer image would be very well resolved with good AA and minimal to no aliasing.

In that scenario a scaler which does some relatively agressive sharpening would work well, however what we got is a continuation of the poor IQ that plagued last gen and so the scaling is broken as it just makes aliasing stand out even more.

Maybe the scaler was designed with 4K in mind. I imagine the oversharpening and crushed blacks may not have such a negative impact on image quality. Maybe jumping from 720p to 1080p doesn't create enough to blurriness and washing out so the scaler is basically overcompensating.

 

[dobwal]

Seems like voice controls are far more important than motion controls. i don't think i've once used a gesture with the xb1. I do once in awhile use voice commands, like xbox record that.

They should have just built a mic into the controller. then have two skus. $399 w/o kinect, $499 w/ kinect. kinect would just be the camera and what not.

I don't know I like the passive functions of the camera. Automatic login, parental controls and smart battery functions of the controller are camera based features I really appreciate.

 

[GrimThorne]

Infamous CBOAT hints at Kinectless $400 Xbox One, after disappointing NPD.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100703600&postcount=572







Kinectless version would clearly be a major strategy shift, even more fundamental than a simple price cut.

This is going to definitely be another failed prediction. Seriously, we'll see a price drop and/or the removal of the Blu-ray player before we see a Kinectless X1.

 

[DrJay24]

Sounds like the sharpness filter is gone in the new update, I hope no one will miss it despite people claiming BF4 looked better because of it.

 

[shredenvain]

It just seems odd to me that if you arent winning in sales monthly you are somehow in trouble. Only one console ever wins in sales yet we still have at least 3 systems every gen. This is not an all or nothing situation. You can actually be 2nd place in sales but still be profitable.

 

[Sonic]

It just seems odd to me that if you arent winning in sales monthly you are somehow in trouble. Only one console ever wins in sales yet we still have at least 3 systems every gen. This is not an all or nothing situation. You can actually be 2nd place in sales but still be profitable.

You are right. And this is why many of us are taking a wait and see approach and how sales are over the coming months. E3 will be the next date I even care to visit next gen console sales with any seriousness, as by then we will know where the early adopters have gone. E3 helps set the tone for the rest of the year so if by then XB1 has slow sales and MS puts on a weak E3 show there's cause to worry.

 

[Rangers]

Everyone keeps saying "reduce the price, keep Kinect MS". Wise words, as $399 Kinectless SKU is probably a bad deal for most people.

However, if, at some point, they can afford to sell an SKU w/Kinect at $399, there is a good chance they can sell it at $299 or under with a mic only. Now this is a competitive advantage, assuming PS4 stays at its current price.

Of course, the real issue is finding good software for Kinect, which can solve a lot of problems without aggressive pricing.

That was my original "vision" for X1. At 299 I think it would be pretty compelling. Maybe not quite as powerful as PS4, but packing a lot of next gen punch still.

It is sad that making a less powerful box forces you into that corner where basically you have to compete on price, and there's not much other options (thereby, more powerful hardware can actually save you money in the long run, as I'd argue 360 did for MS). Or at least sad MS couldn't realize it when I can.

It would require MS to admit they completely dont know what they're doing though, which may be a problem. It's like, I'm a Cowboys fan, and sometimes Jerry Jones doesn't fire coaches he needs to fire because he doesn't like admitting he was wrong

 

[zupallinere]

Sounds like the sharpness filter is gone in the new update, I hope no one will miss it despite people claiming BF4 looked better because of it.

No more crushed blacks ?? I'm crushe..

 

[blakjedi]

That was my original "vision" for X1. At 299 I think it would be pretty compelling. Maybe not quite as powerful as PS4, but packing a lot of next gen punch still.

It is sad that making a less powerful box forces you into that corner where basically you have to compete on price, and there's not much other options (thereby, more powerful hardware can actually save you money in the long run, as I'd argue 360 did for MS). Or at least sad MS couldn't realize it when I can.

It would require MS to admit they completely dont know what they're doing though, which may be a problem. It's like, I'm a Cowboys fan, and sometimes Jerry Jones doesn't fire coaches he needs to fire because he doesn't like admitting he was wrong

I'm a giants fan... Sometimes owners can be loyal to a fault!

 

[rokkerkory]

This is going to definitely be another failed prediction. Seriously, we'll see a price drop and/or the removal of the Blu-ray player before we see a Kinectless X1.

Wait one disappointing NPD and we are removing a core experience from the system? Not.

 

[DrJay24]

No more crushed blacks ?? I'm crushe..

No, that's still there.

 

[Rangers]

Wait one disappointing NPD and we are removing a core experience from the system? Not.

More like three months where they are clearly rapidly falling behind the main competitor in a douopoly, how long do you want to wait? I'd argue these early months are crucial! By 1-2 years it's probably too late. A typical gen may crest as soon as year 3.

USA they haven't fallen behind too much but the situation could rapidly get very bad in Europe! UK is already pretty bad, and it was a MS cornerstone last gen. I think in the last German charts, there was only ONE XBO game in the top 50, it was Tomb Raider at #37. Nothing else!

Click spoilers for Germany

Spoiler

Germany:
Week 6, 2014 - Individual Formats (Units)

01 (02) PS3 GRAN TURISMO 6 (SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT)
02 (03) PS3 FIFA 14 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
03 (09) PS4 FIFA 14 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
04 (05) PS3 CALL OF DUTY: GHOSTS (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
05 (06) PS3 ASSASSIN'S CREED IV - BLACK FLAG (UBISOFT)
06 (04) PS3 GRAND THEFT AUTO V (TAKE-TWO INTERACTIVE)
07 (NE) 360 FABLE ANNIVERSARY (MICROSOFT)
08 (07) 3DS MARIO PARTY: ISLAND TOUR (NINTENDO)
09 (01) PS4 TOMB RAIDER - DEFINITIVE EDITION (SQUARE ENIX)
10 (11) WII JUST DANCE 2014 (UBISOFT)
11 (12) 3DS ANIMAL CROSSING: NEW LEAF (NINTENDO)
12 (32) PS4 BATTLEFIELD 4 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
13 (13) 3DS MARIO KART 7 (NINTENDO)
14 (23) PS4 ASSASSIN'S CREED IV - BLACK FLAG (UBISOFT)
15 (15) PC CALL OF DUTY: GHOSTS (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
16 (18) PC DIABLO III (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
17 (38) PS4 CALL OF DUTY: GHOSTS (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
18 (19) 360 MINECRAFT - XBOX 360 EDITION (AK TRONIC)
19 (21) 360 CALL OF DUTY: GHOSTS (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
20 (22) 3DS POKÉMON Y (NINTENDO)
21 (16) WIU SUPER MARIO 3D WORLD (NINTENDO)
22 (14) PS3 DIABLO III (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
23 (25) 3DS NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. 2 (NINTENDO)
24 (29) 3DS POKÉMON X (NINTENDO)
25 (24) PS3 NEED FOR SPEED: RIVALS (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
26 (28) 360 ASSASSIN'S CREED IV - BLACK FLAG (UBISOFT)
27 (35) PC THE ELDER SCROLLS V - SKYRIM (BETHESDA SOFTWORKS)
28 (17) PS3 BATTLEFIELD 4 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
29 (27) PS3 BEYOND: TWO SOULS (SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT)
30 (26) PC BATTLEFIELD 4 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
31 (10) PS3 DRAGON BALL Z: BATTLE OF Z (NAMCO BANDAI GAMES)
32 (46) PS4 NEED FOR SPEED: RIVALS (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
33 (34) PC LANDWIRTSCHAFTS-SIMULATOR 2013 (ASTRAGON)
34 (33) 3DS THE LEGEND OF ZELDA: A LINK BETWEEN WORLDS (NINTENDO)
35 (20) 360 GRAND THEFT AUTO V (TAKE-TWO INTERACTIVE)
36 (40) 360 FIFA 14 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
37 (08) XBO TOMB RAIDER - DEFINITIVE EDITION (SQUARE ENIX)
38 (39) PS3 THE LAST OF US (SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT)
39 (41) 3DS LEGO CITY UNDERCOVER: THE CHASE BEGINS (NINTENDO)
40 (42) WII SKYLANDERS: SWAP FORCE - STARTER PACK (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
41 (31) PC ASSASSIN'S CREED IV - BLACK FLAG (UBISOFT)
42 (36) 3DS SUPER MARIO 3D LAND (NINTENDO)
43 (__) PS3 NARUTO SHIPPUDEN: ULTIMATE NINJA STORM 3 (NAMCO BANDAI GAMES)
44 (__) PS4 KILLZONE: SHADOW FALL (SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT)
45 (__) PS3 MADDEN NFL 25 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
46 (49) PC DIE SIMS 3: JAHRESZEITEN (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
47 (92) PS3 SPORTS CHAMPIONS 2 (SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT)
48 (__) WII MARIO KART WII (NINTENDO)
49 (50) 360 DIABLO III (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
50 (69) PS3 CALL OF DUTY: BLACK OPS II (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)

 

[Zachriel]

Look back at the NPD numbers for 2007, the Xbox 360 was pretty close to outselling the Playstation 3 by 2-1 in the US for the entire year and just look where the Playstation 3 is now.

I know there are other factors to consider, but my point is we are only 4 months into the lives of both consoles, so I think it is far too early for doom and gloom predictions.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It is sad that making a less powerful box forces you into that corner where basically you have to compete on price, and there's not much other options (thereby, more powerful hardware can actually save you money in the long run, as I'd argue 360 did for MS). Or at least sad MS couldn't realize it when I can.

That's not true. Competing on price is only one option for businesses, and one that can be very costly. Decent marketing can make a 'lesser' product the most desirable. A USP that wins the heart and minds of consumers (old Wii example) can command a premium.

Dropping Kinect would put MS in the position where they can only compete on price. "Play the same games as the other system, only not quite as good, but for cheaper!" Not a great message, and it undermines the premium value of their brand. "Get Xbox One - the only system in the world with ..." Core gamers may not be impressed with the USP, but they aren't the only demographic to chase.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Look back at the NPD numbers for 2007, the Xbox 360 was pretty close to outselling the Playstation 3 by 2-1 in the US for the entire year and just look where the Playstation 3 is now.

Still at a huge decifit in totals in North-America?

I know there are other factors to consider, but my point is we are only 4 months into the lives of both consoles, so I think it is far too early for doom and gloom predictions.

The difference is that the One doesn't have the rest of the world to carry a weak NA for them. NA is as good as it gets for them.

 

[Rangers]

That's not true. Competing on price is only one option for businesses, and one that can be very costly. Decent marketing can make a 'lesser' product the most desirable. A USP that wins the heart and minds of consumers (old Wii example) can command a premium.

Dropping Kinect would put MS in the position where they can only compete on price. "Play the same games as the other system, only not quite as good, but for cheaper!" Not a great message, and it undermines the premium value of their brand. "Get Xbox One - the only system in the world with ..." Core gamers may not be impressed with the USP, but they aren't the only demographic to chase.

Well what they're doing now doesn't seem to be working.

Another litmus test, is I remember somebody once posting "MS would never make a 399 Kinectless SKU because it would outsell the higher priced Kinect SKU too badly." Welp. What does that tell us? Lol.

I guess it's true they dont have to ONLY compete on price, if they could tap some of that Wii niche with Kinect then yeah they wouldn't have to. But they aren't because the sales prove it.

Just in general I think when you trot out substantially weaker hardware, at least in the core markiet, basically your option to stimulate sales ends up being to slash price. Same thing the Wii U is facing right now. But they couldn't go low enough with Wii U. You could also throw marketing dollars at it, but that will end up less effective imo and dollars are dollars no matter where spent. A whole lot of commercials wont juice console sales as much as a price cut will.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Just in general I think when you trot out substantially weaker hardware, at least in the core markiet, basically your option to stimulate sales ends up being to slash price.

Wii, PS2, PS1, were not the most powerful consoles of their generation nor the cheapest. They competed on package deals and overall offering. PS1 did mostly as well as it did due to excellent marketing, reaching out to new demographics.

A whole lot of commercials wont juice console sales as much as a price cut will.

You may be surprised how many products/brands have been turned around simply by good marketing. It is possible. One of the problems PS3 faced was solved with the 'it only does everything' campaign. There are probably people out who'd like XB1 (especially once it's extra-gaming functions are properly realised) but they don't understand what it is yet regards what they'd get out of it. AFAIK the only TV ads in Europe (certainly the UK) were centred around the gaming. There was an NFL ad in the US but that hardly presented a strong, all encompassing message. What was XB1 then? It watches TV shows you already watch?