News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Cyan]

Probably we've gone long enough to say there's not much revolutionary really going to come with Kinect.

That said in this connected age, including a voice recognition mic system and a video camera with every console is alone probably a decent idea, regardless of any motion control, provided eventually the added cost of it becomes low.

I think Kinect is more evolutionary than revolutionary -although it can be unique in its own way, and maybe revolutionary with the likes of Occulus Rift- as it began as a project when the Wii and motion controls were at their peak.

The fact that it wasn't bundled with every single X360 was its main handicap but there were a few games, especially a survival horror from Sega, which shown the great amount of potential it can have.

If it can provide voice and gesture controls satisfactorily while sitting, you could use your hand to grab and move characters around the screen (think about a platformer with those options) or it is used smartly in mystery/adventure games or featuring some shoehorned controls like in BF4, then it can have the success it deserves.

 

[Cyan]

I'm surprised people here disagree with the choice of Nadella being MSFT CEO, imho it is great choice.
Now what I find weird is that he got nominated after MSFT bought Nokia, I'm not sure that make lots of sense from his POV. Anyway at some even if incredibly wealthy they have to stop wasting money.

Now what will he do? Bastardize his view and keep afloat unprofitable businesses in an attempt to maintain a statu quo? Or the company will a severe re-org?
In the long run I would prefer the later.

I think he is a very good choice that broadens the spectrum of people at the very top of the company, because of his background.

Phil Spencer has expressed his content over Satya Nadella's election as CEO.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Phil-Spencer-Microsoft-CEO-Supports-Xbox-One-62072.html

His first interview as CEO:

I wonder if bkillian knows him somehow. What do you think about Nadella being the new CEO, bkillian? Just curious...

 

[bkilian]

I wonder if bkillian knows him somehow. What do you think about Nadella being the new CEO, bkillian? Just curious...

I have no experience with him, I've never even worked in a division he headed up. I do work with folks who have worked with him, and they're happy he's CEO because MS makes a product we compete directly with...

 

[DJ12]

I do work with folks who have worked with him, and they're happy he's CEO because MS makes a product we compete directly with...

Oh dear.

 

[liolio]

He will probably accelerate the shift of windows from devices to the the infrastructure of Azure.

Or it could have the pro version develop with its own agenda.

Azure is the future of MS because it is the only way to tie every that MS is about -great ubiquitous software - to everything...

Cloud is not everything there is need for more consistent updates of windows in the professional world.

I know you think of Bing as bad but Bing and by virtue of Bing, the Foursquare and Facebook tie ups are the only way to provide contextual data services to their software backend... Bing is FUNDAMENTAL to the future of MS and needs Azure to be its storage, compute and connection engine... windows at this point is just the endpoint interface to Azure/Bing.

I tried it actually for while, not that bad especially since they can use google results. Though I gave up on it because no matter repeatedly dealing with the setting it kept returning me results in french in a lot of topics. Overall Google is still a better search engine.

Bing powers Kinect and will power Cortana. It will provide the location data to all searches local and wide area, translate... much like Google Now. Azure and Bing together is the convergence of everything MS...

I think it might prove really difficult to monetize cloud storage in the personal realm, be it for google or MSFT. though google generates a lot more revenues through its search engine.

Msft tries to keep a lot of its efforts afloat by pouring money into it. It is not really working. They have to take decisions which is different than giving up on all their efforts.

Now I think that Windows is going to suffer more and more in the personal realm, especially as Google is to widen Android reach and effort like that new Asus ChromeOS selling for 179$.
While Windows 8 have a tough time I think lots of enterprises willing to buy millions of licenses are waiting for a compliant products. The last things I read coming from MSFT about one size fitting it all is a lot of BS, I do not know how the new CEP relates to those guidances.

 

[bkilian]

Oh dear.

Well, it's not as bad as that, apparently he delivers solid results. Like Ballmer. In our view, what MS could really use as a CEO now is a visionary. Someone willing to shake the company out of it's ruts and take a few risks. Right now it's basically running on automatic. Look at the XB1. A conservative device in execution compared to the 360. Will it be successful? Undoubtedly. Will it capture the imaginations of millions of people? Eh...
Azure, Server and Tools: good, solid, boring businesses. The last executive to take a risk was Sinofsky with windows 8, and look what happened to him.

 

[blakjedi]

Well, it's not as bad as that, apparently he delivers solid results. Like Ballmer. In our view, what MS could really use as a CEO now is a visionary. Someone willing to shake the company out of it's ruts and take a few risks. Right now it's basically running on automatic. Look at the XB1. A conservative device in execution compared to the 360. Will it be successful? Undoubtedly. Will it capture the imaginations of millions of people? Eh...
Azure, Server and Tools: good, solid, boring businesses. The last executive to take a risk was Sinofsky with windows 8, and look what happened to him.

I dislike Sinofsky. I think his risks were bad ones. He wasn't a team player which is a lot the reason why MS looks so disjointed. Desktop doesnt work seamlessly with phone which doesnt work with xbox. He ws a one man show and it revelaed itself in the rollout of Windows 8. It wasnt all his fault but I'm glad Terry Myerson is ridding MS of all the folks who made the UX decisions for windows 8.

@ liolio Bing isnt just a search engine as I was pointing out. Its really an API repository that uses Azure resources to provide machine learning capabilities to developers... Think of Google Now... Bing is actually MS's Google now based on both the Orleans and Sartori machine learning and indexing engines... This article really describes what Bing is and why its important.

http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-bing-make-over-back-end-services-take-center-stage-7000017546/

As MS gets its corporate act together and starts to bring its software backend act together it will see multiplying benefits across all its enterprises.

 

[egoless]

Delete

 

[Rangers]

Well, it's not as bad as that, apparently he delivers solid results. Like Ballmer. In our view, what MS could really use as a CEO now is a visionary. Someone willing to shake the company out of it's ruts and take a few risks. Right now it's basically running on automatic. Look at the XB1. A conservative device in execution compared to the 360. Will it be successful? Undoubtedly. Will it capture the imaginations of millions of people? Eh...
Azure, Server and Tools: good, solid, boring businesses. The last executive to take a risk was Sinofsky with windows 8, and look what happened to him.

Yeah I noticed that right away in the interview. The knock on Balmer and even Gates was that they were corporate managers not visionaries (though I imagine nowdays history would paint Gates as a great like Jobs).

From that interview the new CEO just seems like a bland corporate drone, no vision to be had.

But we'll see, I still say anybody>Balmer.

is either even now or being outsold by PS3 worldwide

360 still does quite well and isn't being outsold WW by PS3 by any appreciable amount if at all (a typical 2-1 December in the USA will see to that). Further it arguably at least tied in worldwide sales.

PS4 is viewed as well more powerful than X1 and it's not suffering from overheating or being "wrapped in $100 bills". In fact these consoles draw a good amount less power than their predecessors and use much less advanced hardware, both.

I guess it depends what you call "visionary" and whether people want it. By virtue of Kinect, TV integration, and it's bold/foolish initial DRM scheme, I'd say X1 was arguably more bold than PS4, but was it a smart play? Comparative sales so far say no. Companies never understand power is first and last in core gaming.

If Nadella/Elop cut out Xbox (isn't Elop, the one rumored to want Xbox cut anyway, still in there somewhere), that's fine. It's more trouble than it's worth.

Elop is now in charge of Xbox division actually, But dont hold your breath for MS to ditch it. MS is getting more into devices not less, and Xbox has long been the only "cool" product MS has, it's the basis for Microsoft stores for example, really (why else would anybody go in a Microsoft store the last few years pre-Nokia purchase).

 

[Jwm]

New update incoming on Feb 11.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/02/next-weeks-xbox-one-update-promises-improved-voice-commands/

Seems to add a learning feature to Kinect's VC. Also adds the ability to "see" and manage the HDD, display battery life, USB keyboard support.

March 4 update for a new party and multiplayer system.

Parts of Cortana? Or was that entirely made up and debunked now?

 

[egoless]

Delete

 

[Rangers]

X1 is not taking the traditional route and placing a large amount of memory in the package, just as Intel is about to do. Bold risk. The throwing away money comment was in relation to all the money loss incentives (reduced hardware cost, exclusives by territory...) outside of the US, huge investments, for naught. Bold bet that didn't pay off.

It's still a fairly small-ish SOC compared to the biggest GPU's, and almost exactly the same size as PS4 SOC. I dont see it terribly aggressive.

Just because people don't like it doesn't dismiss the fact that they are bold bets and big risks.

Right that was kinda my point. "Bold" doesn't mean "what consumers actually want as shown in sales".

Microsoft did this and that with X1 but every little bit more power/less price would have helped the sales a lot more. People have proved they're not rushing to buy it over Kinect or TV integration.

 

[Cyan]

X1 is not taking the traditional route and placing a large amount of memory in the package, just as Intel is about to do. Bold risk. The throwing away money comment was in relation to all the money loss incentives (reduced hardware cost, exclusives by territory...) outside of the US, huge investments, for naught. Bold bet that didn't pay off.



Just because people don't like it doesn't dismiss the fact that they are bold bets and big risks. Not caring for Kinect doesn't mean you dismiss the bold bet that it is, nor the ability to guarantee all content is paid for just like Steam and therefore allows Steam scenarios such as huge sales and digital sharing instead of lumping into DRM panic, and so on. Kin, data centric first, voice second. ZuneHD, design first with digital sharing, HD radio, metro. Windows 8, metro. X1, steam-like, digital sharing, massive flexible gpu scratchpad to extend the type of experimentation as seen with CELL. Etc. Again, writing things off doesn't dismiss that big risks/bets were and still are being taken.

I agree with you. The Xbox One is a forward looking console, although some of the features it had originally were unrealistic even by today's standards. An always online console could not be used sometimes for a number of reasons, and that's a handicap where there are many scenarios when an internet connection couldn't be present.

Besides that, including things like the audio chip or Kinect -especially, audio chips were common on consoles before- by default is a bold move, that I think it will pay off once Kinect is more utilised in the future.

In the transition era we are in, with some core gamers wanting classic gameplay and classic powerful designs, I don't blame companies for being confused.

Look at what happened to Microsoft. And look what happened to Sony, which are selling very well, but the console lacks soul compared to previous PSs. WiiU is a bleh because the "revolutionary" gamepad is meant for individual gamers and things like that which are fail in its design.

As for Microsoft, their efforts with the Xbox should pay off later, when voice recognition becomes standard -a dream from the late 90s already- and Kinect can be used to play satisfactorily, on smart games and maybe with Occulus Rift.

You never know where success is. But aside from Project Talisman, it's not the first effort on hardware Microsoft have ever made.

The original MSX created by Microsoft was a successful and standardised machine, that sold very very well in some countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSX

 

[Cyan]

Well, it's not as bad as that, apparently he delivers solid results. Like Ballmer. In our view, what MS could really use as a CEO now is a visionary. Someone willing to shake the company out of it's ruts and take a few risks. Right now it's basically running on automatic. Look at the XB1. A conservative device in execution compared to the 360. Will it be successful? Undoubtedly. Will it capture the imaginations of millions of people? Eh...
Azure, Server and Tools: good, solid, boring businesses. The last executive to take a risk was Sinofsky with windows 8, and look what happened to him.

Maybe that's why I like Windows 8 so much despite what the general consensus says. It works very well for me, it launches in a matter of seconds and it has a bit of everything.

The Xbox One is mostly conservative in the hardware side, you mean? In that sense it's not the mighty Xbox 360, I drooled at the 360's specs before it came out, I couldn't believe a console could be that powerful in 2005 and for 400$.

Then they created things that became standard everywhere, like the achievements, gamertags, indie support via XBLA and XNA... and Peter Moore was awesome, lots of laughs when he showed his GTA tattoo --this is coming from a non GTA fan, not used to the franchise. :smile2:

But it also led to the RROD fiasco. Could you imagine where Xbox would be now hadn't that happened?

The Xbox One is not as ambitious hardware power wise and it shows, but hey it can be powered on for 10 years, they say, without hardware failures. It shows a new philosophy, and Whitten, Yusuf, etc, at the top of the Xbox board now, yes, look much more conservative in their attitude than Moore, Bach...

Still they got it right, the console has some soul now, that's why it is criticised, because it's not made to make everyone happy. To me that's the boldness of it, and where it shines. There is the so called fear of change.

In this case I'd recommend the 23 pages book "Who moved my cheese?" by Spencer Johnson.

 

[-tkf-]

Just because people don't like it doesn't dismiss the fact that they are bold bets and big risks. Not caring for Kinect doesn't mean you dismiss the bold bet that it is, nor the ability to guarantee all content is paid for just like Steam and therefore allows Steam scenarios such as huge sales and digital sharing instead of lumping into DRM panic, and so on. Kin, data centric first, voice second. ZuneHD, design first with digital sharing, HD radio, metro. Windows 8, metro. X1, steam-like, digital sharing, massive flexible gpu scratchpad to extend the type of experimentation as seen with CELL. Etc. Again, writing things off doesn't dismiss that big risks/bets were and still are being taken.

There is nothing , at all, that is stopping the competition from doing the "steam" thing along with Microsoft, that one is in no way special.

Comparing the "massive flexible gpu scratchpad" to CELL is imho reaching. We know the purpose of the "scratchpad", it's their to make up for the DDR3 speed. Sure it can and will be used for "other" stuff. But it would surprise me if we end up seeing something spectacular that isn't possible on the other consoles.

The bold move is adding Kinect and HDMI IN to every box without having something to steal the show.

 

[Cyan]

The creator of D4, Hidetaka ‘Swerty65′ Suehiro talks about the new possibilities of Kinect, and how his game D4 can be played without having to touch the controller for the duration of the entire game. :smile2:

He affirms that you can use your voice to choose cues instead of the standard controls -something that could be revolutionary on adventure games, btw-, the new Kinect can track all your fingers now, can be used while sitting, in the dark... etc etc.

http://www.vg247.com/2014/02/10/d4-...xbox-one-kinect-facial-capture-into-gameplay/

Now; in an interview with OXM, Suehiro discussed D4′s Kinect control system., which sees detective David Young fighting with a suspect on a passenger jet and reacting to threats in the world. The whole game can be played using Kinect alone, or you can switch to a controller if Microsoft’s sensor makes you “embarrassed,” he says.

David’s Synchro Action bar will fill if you perform these actions well, or if you pick dialogue choices closest to how the detective would act in a given situation. You can respond to prompts using standard controls or through voice cues using Kinect’s microphone.

The game uses Kinect at its core, but Suehiro wants to go deeper, if he can. He told OXM, “The original Kinect was enough for me to come up with the concept for D4, but for using the player’s whole body in various poses, the new Kinect is indispensable.

“For one thing, it can now track all your fingers, and for another it lets you play sitting down. Voice control makes the interaction more responsive, and you can get closer to the screen and even play in a dark room. The new Kinect can even read your facial expression, so I’m currently finding a way to implement the player’s empathy.”

It’s an interesting aim, given Xbox One’s ability to track expressions. We saw the tech running at gamescom and incredibly, it seemed to work.

 

[Cyan]

I replied to a post Dsoup has written a few minutes ago and I think it would be amazing if the console had a similar service to GOG -Good Ol' Games-. What do you think?

if Microsoft created a service on the console similar to GOG.com, it could be a big hit. And I don't mean it only for old Xbox games, but PC games that worked on Windows, adapting the controls to Xbox One and Kinect.

Just imagine masterpieces like Heroes of Might & Magic 2 on the console at a good price and updated controls.

The console is x86 and conversions should be easy as pie!

http://www.gog.com/game/heroes_of_might_and_magic_2_gold_edition

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There'd need to be a lot of work to get a full framework, and games would in many cases need to be rewritten to work with controller, unless there's a simple mapping of thumbsticks to mouse, whcih would be pretty sucky. I don't think it's very feasible.

 

[eastmen]

There'd need to be a lot of work to get a full framework, and games would in many cases need to be rewritten to work with controller, unless there's a simple mapping of thumbsticks to mouse, whcih would be pretty sucky. I don't think it's very feasible.

The one is getting a mouse keyboard support I believe. So they'd just have to mark it as required in the store prompt .


I would think games up to maybe 2008 or so would work really well on the one.

 

[Cyan]

There'd need to be a lot of work to get a full framework, and games would in many cases need to be rewritten to work with controller, unless there's a simple mapping of thumbsticks to mouse, whcih would be pretty sucky. I don't think it's very feasible.

I thought it would be easier Shifty, because they wouldn't need the eSRAM to render the games at all and run them at full speed. The entire Heroes of Might & Magic classic series, from 1 to 4 and its spin-off Heroes Chronicles (1999), for instance, should be fully playable.

But what do I know. I would be certainly breathing in peace if that happened, it's one of the things I miss the most when I play on a console, the ability to play classics -save a few exceptions when Sega published some of their classics on the PS3/360-.

All the more complex aspects of the conversion that you mention, couldn't be easily overcome? I mean, GoG staff has to rewrite ALL the code of those games so the game can work on Windows 8 flawlessly.

I have Windows 8.1 and the Heroes of Might & Magic games run like a charm.

Also playing a game nowadays can be easier when there are experts who are willing to help.