News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[bkilian]

Do you mean "night vision" for rgb image? because current Kinect can works on low light.

Kinect skeletal works in low light. Kinect ID does not. Maybe they want to change that.

But here's the thing. When we phone at least the not ignorant know their conversation will be recorded and analyzed by the NSA. We can disable cameras on lame SmartTVs any day. We can adjust to all that.

But how do you adjust to a device which sits 24h in your living room, always on, waiting for input and is able to record everything which is said or sees, transmit it to be analyzed for trigger words. I'm sure the positive spin is already prepared with an "anti break in/home security" app.

I have no real concern here about MS but this infrastructure is far too juicy to be ignored by the NSA. If you don't get nervous about the potential danger involved I'm really concerned how complacent we're all digging our own holes.

Wow, I'm glad I don't live in your world. Power requirements for devices in sleep mode would preclude the camera being able to record while the device is idle.

More likely is things that have already happened with normal Kinect. Some guy found out his wife was cheating on him with his best friend because the Kinect signed the friend in with Kinect ID while he was at work.

 

[Nisaaru]

Wow, I'm glad I don't live in your world. Power requirements for devices in sleep mode would preclude the camera being able to record while the device is idle.

I don't regard voice recording as something which requires a lot power and shouldn't the machine be controlled by voice recognition?

 

[Proelite]

I don't think any 360 fans will like that,HDD install on PS3 was one of the most hated and flamed features of the PS3 by 360 fans,even MS mock GTA4 installs on PS3.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/187316/ms-makes-fun-of-gta-iv-install-time-on-ps3/

Can you play multiple PS3 games without needing to switch discs?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

And obviously the number of players being tracked is the big technical upgrade - jumping from 2 to 6.

That's even more impressive when you consider how many skeletal points it can potentially track now.

Kinect - 40 skeletal points in total.
Kinect 2 - 150 skeletal points in total.

While number of people went up by a factor of 3, skeletal points went up by almost a factor of 4.

Still I have to question whether 6 people isn't a bit excessive. It would have been interesting if it was possible to include a higher resolution camera with enough processing power in the unit to track more points on less people. 4 people seems ideal to me. 6 might be good for simulating a mosh pit though.

Regards,
SB

 

[XpiderMX]

Still I have to question whether 6 people isn't a bit excessive. It would have been interesting if it was possible to include a higher resolution camera with enough processing power in the unit to track more points on less people. 4 people seems ideal to me. 6 might be good for simulating a mosh pit though.

Regards,
SB

You need to see some destructoid gameplays xD

 

[Gradthrawn]

But here's the thing. When we phone at least the not ignorant know their conversation will be recorded and analyzed by the NSA. We can disable cameras on lame SmartTVs any day. We can adjust to all that.

But how do you adjust to a device which sits 24h in your living room, always on, waiting for input and is able to record everything which is said or sees, transmit it to be analyzed for trigger words. I'm sure the positive spin is already prepared with an "anti break in/home security" app.

I have no real concern here about MS but this infrastructure is far too juicy to be ignored by the NSA. If you don't get nervous about the potential danger involved I'm really concerned how complacent we're all digging our own holes.

It's very simple. You can't be that paranoid and stay connected and up to date with the newest tech. The workaround for the Durango is simply not buying one.

Can you play multiple PS3 games without needing to switch discs?

Can you do it with the Durango? I don't see that in the report. I just see it listing required installs. There's no reason they won't require you to have the disc in the console to launch an installed game the same way they do now. Not saying they will, but I don't think that report really says anything to counter that. Unless you're assuming when they mention playing multiple "games" at the same time, they're literally referring to multiple disc based games (versus multiple "applications", one of which may be a game, the others of which may be the apps always available under the new OS and reserved resources).

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Xbox companion app - thought so. Easy way to add value and fancy controls without needing a fancy, expensive controller. Devs can assume it's ubiquitous as any in-the-box peripheral and target it accordingly.

This becomes even more exciting if Durango comes with the ability to pair with Bluetooth devices. Then you have low latency gaming potential for your tablet/smartphone/whatever as either a control unit or display unit.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Can you do it with the Durango? I don't see that in the report. I just see it listing required installs. There's no reason they won't require you to have the disc in the console to launch an installed game the same way they do now. Not saying they will, but I don't think that report really says anything to counter that. Unless you're assuming when they mention playing multiple "games" at the same time, they're literally referring to multiple disc based games (versus multiple "applications", one of which may be a game, the others of which may be the apps always available under the new OS and reserved resources).

A potentially always on internet connection combined with games being tied to an account and/or the machine the account is registered to would make it such that you could throw away the disk after it's been installed.

In other words once it becomes digitally registered to your account/machine then MS could make that disc unuseable for anyone else. Hence, the disc is would no longer required as a mechanism for ownership verification.

Basically, it would be the same as buying a digitally distributed version of the game. Only the game is provided on disk but still requires the same digital registration. The disk then becomes just a distribution medium only and is no longer used as ownership verification. Current consoles use it as both distribution medium and ownership verification.

Regards,
SB

 

[messyman]

Maybe full installation is their way of DRM?

 

[expletive]

Install while playing is excellent. Wonder if PC will get that tech?

Battle.net already has this where you can have a fully optimal gaming experience (according to their progress meter) after just 10% of the game in question is downloaded/installed. Just had this experience over the weekend with Starcraft 2 on my PC.

EDIT: Of course i'm paranoid and waited for the whole thing to download anyway but in theory they are saying the 10% experience is = to the 100% experience.

I don't think any 360 fans will like that,HDD install on PS3 was one of the most hated and flamed features of the PS3 by 360 fans,even MS mock GTA4 installs on PS3.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/187316/ms-makes-fun-of-gta-iv-install-time-on-ps3/

I think it would be fine if it performed as above.

A potentially always on internet connection combined with games being tied to an account and/or the machine the account is registered to would make it such that you could throw away the disk after it's been installed.

In other words once it becomes digitally registered to your account/machine then MS could make that disc unuseable for anyone else. Hence, the disc is would no longer required as a mechanism for ownership verification.

Basically, it would be the same as buying a digitally distributed version of the game. Only the game is provided on disk but still requires the same digital registration. The disk then becomes just a distribution medium only and is no longer used as ownership verification. Current consoles use it as both distribution medium and ownership verification.

Regards,
SB

I dont see why this is necessary (disposable discs). With the current Xbox licensing, games purchased on XBLA are validated in two ways:

1. They run on the console they were purchased on for anyone on that machine
2. They run on any console as long as the original purchaser is logged into XBL on that given machine.

The disc could be kept if you wanted to go install the game at a friends house and log in to play it there. Much faster than re-downloading it or cheaper for those who have bandwidth caps at home. Why would they need to make the disc unreadable after first use?

 

[mrcorbo]

I don't think any 360 fans will like that,HDD install on PS3 was one of the most hated and flamed features of the PS3 by 360 fans,even MS mock GTA4 installs on PS3.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/187316/ms-makes-fun-of-gta-iv-install-time-on-ps3/

Mandatory installs are awful on the PS3 because of the implementation. Having the game install in the background as your playing it shouldn't be objectionable for anyone.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

This eye tracking stuff sounds ridiculous. I can see the entire screen of my 51" tv that I game on and I sit like 2 meters from it. Since most gamers probably use a similar size or SMALLER, they should definitely be able to see everything

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I dont see why this is necessary (disposable discs). With the current Xbox licensing, games purchased on XBLA are validated in two ways:

1. They run on the console they were purchased on for anyone on that machine
2. They run on any console as long as the original purchaser is logged into XBL on that given machine.

The disc could be kept if you wanted to go install the game at a friends house and log in to play it there. Much faster than re-downloading it or cheaper for those who have bandwidth caps at home. Why would they need to make the disc unreadable after first use?

You don't HAVE to throw it away, of course. It'd be silly to do that as it remains a good backup of the game you purchased without having to download it digitally if you had to replace it.

That was just to illustrate that you don't have to keep it, because it wouldn't be required to verify that you do indeed own the game. And hence, you wouldn't ever need to have the disk in the drive (creating noise, consuming power, and outputting heat into the console) while playing a game.

Regards,
SB

 

[ShadowRunner]

There is always the option to turn the console off at the wall socket, crisis averted.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

This eye tracking stuff sounds ridiculous. I can see the entire screen of my 51" tv that I game on and I sit like 2 meters from it. Since most gamers probably use a similar size or SMALLER, they should definitely be able to see everything

Read the foveated rendering research paper. Or actually go read any research paper on visual acuity.

Outside of a small area that your eyes are focused on the ability to extract detail diminishes greatly. That area is much smaller than you would think.

Yes, you can see the entire screen. The vast majority of that entire screen will have significantly less visual acuity than what you are directly looking at.

With foveated rendering, you would not be able to tell the difference between that and the entire screen being rendered at full resolution. It would look exactly the same, because wherever you looked on the screen, the graphics and text would be razor sharp. Anywhere you aren't directly looking at will look similarly blurry/low res whether it is rendered at full resolution or not.

Regards,
SB

 

[mrcorbo]

Can you do it with the Durango? I don't see that in the report. I just see it listing required installs. There's no reason they won't require you to have the disc in the console to launch an installed game the same way they do now. Not saying they will, but I don't think that report really says anything to counter that. Unless you're assuming when they mention playing multiple "games" at the same time, they're literally referring to multiple disc based games (versus multiple "applications", one of which may be a game, the others of which may be the apps always available under the new OS and reserved resources).

Well, what would be cool is to be able to set up a multiplayer game and then while waiting for your game lobby to fill up, invites to be accepted, etc., suspend that game to play something else, watch a movie or whatever. When the conditions are met, the system would notify you and you would be a button press away from launching into your multiplayer game.

 

[expletive]

You don't HAVE to throw it away, of course. It'd be silly to do that as it remains a good backup of the game you purchased without having to download it digitally if you had to replace it.

That was just to illustrate that you don't have to keep it, because it wouldn't be required to verify that you do indeed own the game. And hence, you wouldn't ever need to have the disk in the drive (creating noise, consuming power, and outputting heat into the console) while playing a game.

Regards,
SB

Ah ok, of course. I'm sure the 'installation required' bullet is to make up for the lack of speed in the optical drive they are using, rather than a DRM scheme.

What it seems they are basically doing is migrating 'big disc games' to the XBLA ownership model except you can also buy them in a store, install off a disc, and use an activation code.

I am surprised they appear ready to forego the disconnected "Madden XX" user this gen by requiring online, if true.

 

[bkilian]

This eye tracking stuff sounds ridiculous. I can see the entire screen of my 51" tv that I game on and I sit like 2 meters from it. Since most gamers probably use a similar size or SMALLER, they should definitely be able to see everything

You _think_ you see the whole screen. If you've ever done the blind spot trick, you should know that you are definitely not seeing it all. Your brain, with it's wonderful neural network based image processor, fills in detail that you saw previously, and moves your eyes without you thinking about it to focus on whatever you want.

Try this experiment: If you have a dual screen monitor setup, put a website on screen 2, put this message on screen 1, and then, _while looking at this page_, try to read the text on the other monitor. Don't move your eyes. Now this is freaky: Try the same thing with two pieces of text just a couple of inches apart. Without moving your point of focus, you can't do it.

 

[bkilian]

I don't regard voice recording as something which requires a lot power and shouldn't the machine be controlled by voice recognition?

Yes, that could be done, although your scenario of triggering on a large number of words would be infeasible without powering up.

Can you do it with the Durango? I don't see that in the report. I just see it listing required installs. There's no reason they won't require you to have the disc in the console to launch an installed game the same way they do now. Not saying they will, but I don't think that report really says anything to counter that. Unless you're assuming when they mention playing multiple "games" at the same time, they're literally referring to multiple disc based games (versus multiple "applications", one of which may be a game, the others of which may be the apps always available under the new OS and reserved resources).

That could be where the rumored game activation code comes in. after you've activated, the disc becomes worthless. Another user would have to buy an activation code, so you solve the problem of multiple people playing the same game that not requiring the disc in the tray would enable.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Ah ok, of course. I'm sure the 'installation required' bullet is to make up for the lack of speed in the optical drive they are using, rather than a DRM scheme.

It's also there because it allows them to potentially use significantly higher compression on the data stored on the optical drive. That is fairly common on the PC where the install process can be significantly longer than just copying the contents of the optical drive to the PC hard drive. The more aggressive the compression used, the longer the install takes as it is computationally intensive.

X360 and PS3 couldn't use very high levels of compression otherwise loading data off the optical drive and then decompressing it for use would become excessively long.

Having optical media be distribution only (with only a small portion set aside for play instantly) means that publishers can theoretically pack much more data onto each disc.

But there's a caveat here. Unless system resources are reserved just for that purpose, that means background installation of a game to HDD would have to be very slow otherwise it would potentially impact gameplay (using too much CPU/GPGPU resources) when installing heavily compressed assets. They would be decompressed as they are installed to the HDD as you wouldn't want to do the decompression while trying to load/play the game.

Of course, with both Sony and MS now supporting 50 GB optical drives that high compression may not be needed until later in the generation.

Regards,
SB