News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[James Car]

(Lots-of-good-stuff)

Actually, I'm not sure that this part isn't scalable.

Why would MS not be able to use this APU for a small MS branded computer?

The ones that couldn't clock 800 or couldn't hack the 1.2TF GPU could be salvaged apu's for an 8CU, hex-core surface-pro running at 600/1200 or 500/1000.

 

[BeyondTed]

Large last-level storage arrays tend to favor density more heavily. One of AMD's bugbears for quite some time was their being forced to use L2 arrays in the L3, which significantly impacted density.


Cells in cache arrays are linked to long shared bit lines. There are sense amps in caches as well, if only to keep read times fast.


There are pictures of the Xbox One's innards, there is no secondary die. Microsoft did mention a very high aggregate transistor count for the system, although I haven't found a quote that directly mentioned the eSRAM by name outside of third-party sites that may be drawing data from VGleaks.

Well yield is a trade off. Often a few % die area is worth it. If the SRAM is on die then I would guess that the math would strongly say it is worth it for yield and cost. At 32MB I expect that they must do lots of yield engineering by design.

I have looked at the high res pictures. It does seem to be one die, but I am not 100% sure yet. Someone said something about a sticker but I can not tell from the photo. I mean I expect one die but I am curious about the other rumors/substrates which may not be the case. But I do not get the BW if it is on die. It should be much higher.

Yes, you are right about the resistance and R/C of the long lines. I did not think of that. I never really thought of it in the same way as the DRAM, but you are correct.

 

[James Car]

They should scrap everything and start again ... pair an apu with a pitcairn gpu , use a handful of GDDR5 and call it a day .
This thing as it is now (pre-downclock) is laughable performance wise ... IF the rumors are true , we're entering WiiU territory .

In all, this makes the most sense.

However, I think MS execs will have to see failure on the bottom line before they change course.

Unless they can re-use xbone apus for other purposes (surface pro).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I wouldn't go with the idea of scrapping it necessarily. If the HW is suitably virtualised and forwards-compatible as a result, MS can release a new compatible platform in 18-24 months, say, using all the new techs and change the landscape once again. So I wouldn't count MS out on this one just yet (if the downclocks are true, and the masses care and refuse to buy the machine as a result).

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Well, Cboat is the most reliable insider in neogaf. So, if MS doesn't delay the console to launch worldwide this year, the most probable is that there will be a downgrade.

 

[kots]

I wouldn't go with the idea of scrapping it necessarily. If the HW is suitably virtualised and forwards-compatible as a result, MS can release a new compatible platform in 18-24 months, say, using all the new techs and change the landscape once again. So I wouldn't count MS out on this one just yet (if the downclocks are true, and the masses care and refuse to buy the machine as a result).

But if the masses care and refuse to buy it , why release it in the first place ? Why not wait a bit longer and release a better product ?

 

[Gradthrawn]

But if the masses care and refuse to buy it , why release it in the first place ? Why not wait a bit longer and release a better product ?

Because the masses don't (necessarily) care, evidenced by the Wii outselling the HD twins by a ridiculous margin. Granted, there were other factors, but clearly the masses are willing to accept the "unacceptable" performance levels touted here under the right circumstances. The Wii U is clearly not the right circumstances at the moment, but that could change. The XBO may or may not be. None of that really ensures the success of their competitor, though (or their failure).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But if the masses care and refuse to buy it , why release it in the first place ? Why not wait a bit longer and release a better product ?

If companies could operate with that degree of foresight, there'd never be any bad business decisions.

MS have made the product they have, and presumably are contracted into producing millions of them, and have a load of developers invested in making software for the platform. Putting the platform on hold for a year or two is probably hard and every bit as costly as going ahead. If the mainstream non-gamer loves Kinect and TV and casual games with little regard for AWESOM PWERZZ, XB1 could sell tens of millions, and then MS can follow up with a sequel that trounces PS4 thanks to amazing new technologies, and also offer an upgrade path signifying "Xbox forever, buy your games now and play them on every Xbox from here to infinity and beyond."

I don't want to get bogged down into a theoretical business strategy discussion based on numerous, unpredictable what-ifs. None of us knows. Just want to point out a downclock is TEH DOOMERZ for the Xbox brand and scrapping XB1 isn't the only strategy for keeping things going.

 

[Brad Grenz]

According to GAF, Remember Me was going to be announced as exclusive at E3 2012. Might've just been a deal that fell apart at the last moment, though, his being wrong.

That Remember Me was originally being developed as a PS3 exclusive with Sony attached to publish is public knowledge. Sony dropped it and the devs shopped it around until Capcom picked it up.

 

[steveOrino]

Not sure about the percentage, but I felt a great disturbance on the Internet, as if millions of xbox fans cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Well, showing nothing but TV during the entire thing didn't help (part of the danger of changing the focus of an established brand). Also that one Youtube Xbox reveal highlights video that got 6 million + hits added fuel to the fire.

Honestly I have no clue what MS was thinking at that reveal. Core gamers are the only ones that were going to bother to watch something like that anyway.

 

[dumbo11]

Here is the Intel PDF: Worth at least looking at the photos to see the subdivision in the structure of the memory array.

http://download.intel.com/pressroom/kits/events/idffall_2009/pdfs/IDF_MBohr_Briefing.pdf

Thanks for that - very fascinating to read the meanings behind terms that get thrown around along with the practical differences .

The only other option would be a mix of 1T and 6T/8T, but I guess that would require 2 interfaces/complexity and generally wouldn't make much sense?

So likely 6T/8T with no clue as to why the rumours on bad yields have turned up 'at the very last minute'.

 

[Alexct]

I wouldn't go with the idea of scrapping it necessarily. If the HW is suitably virtualised and forwards-compatible as a result, MS can release a new compatible platform in 18-24 months, say, using all the new techs and change the landscape once again. So I wouldn't count MS out on this one just yet (if the downclocks are true, and the masses care and refuse to buy the machine as a result).

If the xbox one will be a flop as I now think(the xbox audience is accustomed to powerful console and is extremely disappointed by the various news) will be the last MS console.
Shareholders must still digest the losses of the xbox 1 a new failure would be the end of the division xbox.
However with each news on the xbox one it is clear that the entire management of the xbox division should be fired the same goes for the
department of R&D.
An agreement with AMD of 3 billion for a console so underpowered it is absurd.

 

[bagofsuck]

but all points to eSRAM problems (even last year same sources pointed out yield problems caused by the eSRAM) there was no words about the GPU how come now suddenly the GPU is affected by this?

 

[liolio]

Wow when is E3? I can only imagine how the web will react if indeed there is a black swan landing during the show

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I wonder what would happen to the internet if at E3, multiplat games ended up looking better on the Xbox One? I think people would spontaneously combust.

BTW - not saying that is going to happen or even implying it is going to happen. It is just as ridiculous as people saying that the Xbox One is DOOOOOMED. But considering all the doom and gloom when almost nothing has been shown for either console has me reminded of how incredibly gullible and sheeplike the vast majority of internet forumers are.

I think every sane and reasonable person is actually waiting to see what Sony and Microsoft show at E3 before even attempting to predict how either console is going to do. And I'm going to bet that even after that most of them will be wrong once this fall rolls around.

Thus far we only have Microsoft talking about their living room strategy for the Xbox One. They've always been planning on showing the games at E3. So at E3, I'll finally be able to form an opinion about their gaming strategy. Maybe it's crap. Maybe it's good. But I certainly won't know until then.

Then again for me, it doesn't much matter as I'm still going to do all my gaming on PC unless there's some incredible exclusive revealed that I don't think will come to PC. And thus far, there isn't even a hint of anything like that on either console.

Regards,
SB

 

[Cyan]

It's unrealistic to gain more than a few million units of a headstart in the first year. And even the PS3 has managed to catch up to the X360.

Dropping the clock speeds on the other hand would be a setback for nearly a decade.

I agree, that's key for me. The console has to be future proof.

I was *born* in the console world with the original Xbox. Pretty much like HollovOne and Rangers, among others, Xbox has been my favourite machine every generation -the original Xbox was very generic and uninteresting, architecture wise, but still-.

If the downclock is true I am seriously hesitating whether to buy the console or not. Not having a Xbox console for the first time in my life is unheard of. Sigh...

It is also unfair to those who pre-ordered the console thinking the specs were true. They were alright, but after such a downgrade they won't be.

Being used to Xbox exclusives switching to the PS4 -I'd like one later, two years from now, 'cos of some exclusives but that's it- or the PC is a very difficult decision for me.

I might leave gaming altogether.

 

[Bagel seed]

No resolution or frame rate requirements confirmed for Xbox One games.

Forza Motorsport 5 will run at 60 frames per second, Microsoft Studios corporate vice president Phil Spencer has told Edge magazine.

Confirmation of the smooth frame rate will come as a great relief to series fans who have been left wondering since the game's announcement last month.

Official word came as the Microsoft Studios chief revealed there will be no minimum performance requirements (such as resolution or frame rate) set for games released on Xbox One.

"There were games that shipped on 360 that were less than 720p," said Spencer. "It's important we give creators the best tools to create the best experience possible and I don't think that platform holders can dictate what the internal frame buffer size should be.

"Forza 5 runs at 60 frames per second, but other people will make different trade-offs. I think it's important - maybe because I'm a studio guy - that you give freedom to the creator because today, through lighting techniques and post effects, resolution is not the thing that maximises beauty."

Spencer concluded: "Some of the most beautiful games of this generation are not dictated by how many pixels they're pushing to the screen. Motion blur, antialiasing, lighting: all of these things come into play. We just give developers the tools and let them make the right creative decisions."

Makes complete sense given everything we know. Now, what's the over under for seeing a sub 720p game to ever hit the platform?

 

[Arwin]

Wow. I am not even going to comment on this. Pre-E3 with new consoles launching is a pretty silly time for rumors, if you ask me. But I guess Microsoft is now not burdened by too much hype, that's for sure.

 

[Cyan]

The drinking never ended.

lol, it is in days like these when I wish I had my bottle of liquor at hand.

Besides that one can't survive the apocalypse unless one can have their bubble bath.

Beware of the Internet AIStrong, hide some wine in the basement, along with the jewelry in your safe.

Then when the people are shuffling up the streets in protest and yelling, "Microsoft! Microsoft! More brains. You have no brrraaaaaaaiiins!" :smile:

You will be able to listen to the sound coming through the window, but well, you will be in your bubble bath with a glass of Merlot and an old copy of Edge magazine left over from Spring 2011, when life was normal....

 

[Gradthrawn]

I might leave gaming altogether.

Over a down clock that you wouldn't even know existed if it weren't for "insiders"?

You're either a gamer or you're not. You're either into gaming or you're not. If you're only into gaming on a certain company's platform then you're doing it wrong (probably). If you were a gamer looking for the most powerful platform there your choice is now and always has been very clear (a good PC, if it isn't obvious).

The reactions to this rumor are amazing.