News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[Prophecy2k]

I wonder if it's too much to hope for that after tomorrow a lot of the noise from the Pro-Playstation people and the Pro-Xbox people will die down?

Somehow I think I probably shouldn't get my hopes up.

Regards,
SB

You will hope in vein then my friend.

More likely one side will undoubtedly get louder than the other, and it will be the side with the biggest e-peen to wave around at the other side's faces ;-)

 

[BRiT]

Oh, the noise will be silenced eventually... all it takes is for either side to keep up their antics which is on a clear path to temp-bans or perm-bans.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Once both hardwares are (not) revealed, we can have two comparison threads - technical and business. All comparison on B3D can be contained in those places, and everyone who's sick of the constant bickering can just ignore them and live a much happier, more fruitful life.

 

[(((interference)))]

Out of interest, what were the FLOPS figures for the original Xbox, Gamecube and PS2?

 

[expletive]

Out of interest, what were the FLOPS figures for the original Xbox, Gamecube and PS2?

Slightly related, I recall in one of the threads someone attached a 400 GFLOPS number to the SHAPE audio processor, understood thats fixed function processing but that cant be right by any means of comparison can it?

 

[Xenio]

Out of interest, what were the FLOPS figures for the original Xbox, Gamecube and PS2?

found this:

Xbox | CPU: 1.5 GFLOPS | GPU: 5.8 GFLOPS | Combined: 7.3 GFLOPS
Xbox360 | CPU: 115 GFLOPS | GPU: 240 GFLOPS | Combined: 355 GFLOPS
Dreamcast | CPU: 1.4 GFLOPS | GPU: 0.1 GFLOPS | Combined: 1.5 GFLOPS
Wii | CPU: 60 GFLOPS | GPU: 1 GFLOPS | Combined: 61 GFLOPS
PS2 | CPU: 6 GFLOPS | GPU: 0 GFLOPS | Combined: 6 GFLOPS
PS3 | CPU: 218 GFLOPS | GPU: 192 GFLOPS | Combined: 364 GFLOPS

http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-opinion/37621-update-how-many-flops-are-in-game-consoles

anyway the Xbox figure shold be not right:

from the book: Opening The Xbox published in 2002.
In the chapter 'The Soul Of A Bad-Ass Machine' on page 270, it gives a much more reasonable figure for Xbox floating point performance: 21.6 gigaflops (GFLOPS)

this seems more legit

Ps, Gamecube System Total: 9.4 + 1.6 = 11.0 Gflops

 

[Betanumerical]

found this:



http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-opinion/37621-update-how-many-flops-are-in-game-consoles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_(console)#Technical_specifications

This makes me think the numbers, for the xbox atleast are total tripe.

.733 mhz * 4 FLOP / cycle = ~ 2.9 GFLOP (iirc).

 

[Xenio]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_(console)#Technical_specifications

This makes me think the numbers, for the xbox atleast are total tripe.

.733 mhz * 4 FLOP / cycle = ~ 2.9 GFLOP (iirc).

the 733 MHz Intel CPU is only rated at 1.4 or 1.5 or at most 3.0 GFLOPs (depending on who's spec sheet you're looking at). so that gives the NV2A between 18.6 and 21.6 GFLOPs depending on whether or not the 21.6 is for the whole Xbox or just the GPU

this put xbox = ~3X the ps2 and 2X the gamecube

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Slightly related, I recall in one of the threads someone attached a 400 GFLOPS number to the SHAPE audio processor, understood thats fixed function processing but that cant be right by any means of comparison can it?

Probably the best measure for a fixed function augmentation is to describe it in terms of how many FLOPS the rest of the system would have to spend to achieve the same workload. Perhaps qualified FLOPS equivalent is needed, such as 'given an i7 such-and-such, it'd need to spend xxx FLOPS to achieve this much workload in a second.' Actuall scrub that. Difference in underlying architecture, especially memory subsystems, means FLOPS aren't an accurate picture.

People should just stop trying to count a metric to evaluate the platforms.

 

[(((interference)))]

Slightly related, I recall in one of the threads someone attached a 400 GFLOPS number to the SHAPE audio processor, understood thats fixed function processing but that cant be right by any means of comparison can it?

I don't think anyone suggested 400 GFLOPS.

I've been told it's more than 100GF, and would need the 'equivalent of a CU or two to emulate'.
They had an extra 8 CPU cores in the alpha kits to emulate the SHAPE block and audio processing cores, but that wasn't enough so they never ended up doing it.

So we're looking at something between 100-200GF, as I said before though, it isn't general purpose FLOPS since it can only be used for audio processing (but it can theoretically free the Durango CPU up from processing audio entirely)

 

[Betanumerical]

the 733 MHz Intel CPU is only rated at 1.4 or 1.5 or at most 3.0 GFLOPs (depending on who's spec sheet you're looking at). so that gives the NV2A between 18.6 and 21.6 GFLOPs depending on whether or not the 21.6 is for the whole Xbox or just the GPU

this put xbox = ~3X the ps2 and 2X the gamecube

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1256726&postcount=30

This post puts the NV2A at ~ 4.66GFLOPS.

I don't think anyone suggested 400 GFLOPS.

I've been told it's more than 100GF, and would need the 'equivalent of a CU or two to emulate'.
They had an extra 8 CPU cores in the alpha kits to emulate the SHAPE block and audio processing cores, but that wasn't enough so they never ended up doing it.

So we're looking at something between 100-200GF, as I said before though, it isn't general purpose FLOPS since it can only be used for audio processing (but it can theoretically free the Durango CPU up from processing audio entirely)

Does audio processing actually involve floating point numbers, I could be showing my relatively lack of knowledge of the field but everything I have done in it (and not a lot at that) has involved integer samples, maybe some of the algorithms use floats but I dunno.

 

[(((interference)))]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_(console)#Technical_specifications

This makes me think the numbers, for the xbox atleast are total tripe.

.733 mhz * 4 FLOP / cycle = ~ 2.9 GFLOP (iirc).

You'd think we'd have reliable FLOP counts for 12 year old systems by now.

I saw that table Xenio posted, but it didn't look right to me either so was hoping someone knows - or can work it out (this is B3D after all )

 

[Xenio]

So we're looking at something between 100-200GF, as I said before though, it isn't general purpose FLOPS since it can only be used for audio processing (but it can free the Durango CPU up from processing audio entirely)

Agreed, this should be all fixed functions that free cpu/GPU Gflops for other things

anyway was not clear if the 100/200 GFlops number is in reference to how many isntructions the fixed functions runs or how many GFlops are needed to emulate such fixed functions
in the last case shape can be emulated well with 200 GFlops, in the first it need a powerful hardware to emulate

anyway I like to know how may hardware voices (all) with effects are possible with this high performance sound block, 256? 512?

 

[Xenio]

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1256726&postcount=30

This post puts the NV2A at ~ 4.66GFLOPS.

28 flops for cycle(pipe vertex = 2 x 8flops + 1 Pixel Shader = 12 Flops, and if not i wrong with 2 ALUS to per pipe and 2 z-stencil buffers,capable de tessalation ) that it must give 6.5GFlops (233MHz)

12+6,5= 18,5
+3 from cpu= 21,5

seems the math is right

Does audio processing actually involve floating point numbers, I could be showing my relatively lack of knowledge of the field but everything I have done in it (and not a lot at that) has involved integer samples, maybe some of the algorithms use floats but I dunno.

convolution and others operations as fourier transforms are heavily floats, from what I know

 

[Betanumerical]

28 flops for cycle(pipe vertex = 2 x 8flops + 1 Pixel Shader = 12 Flops, and if not i wrong with 2 ALUS to per pipe and 2 z-stencil buffers,capable de tessalation ) that it must give 6.5GFlops (233MHz)

12+6,5= 18,5
+3 from cpu= 21,5

seems the math is right

He was only counting programmable flops, not fixed stuff, but I dunno his numbers felt a little off, Id love it if we could get some clarification from people more knowledgable.

 

[(((interference)))]

Does audio processing actually involve floating point numbers, I could be showing my relatively lack of knowledge of the field but everything I have done in it (and not a lot at that) has involved integer samples, maybe some of the algorithms use floats but I dunno.

You're going to have a better luck answering that yourself! No idea.

Does the vgleaks article give any hints:
http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-sound-of-tomorrow/

I should clarify that the SHAPE fixed function block alone (ie excluding the four audio processing cores) is apparently what would 'take an entire CU or two to emulate'.


But maybe ask bkilian? :smile:

 

[Xenio]

new Logo is official on official xbox pages

 

[Cjail]

The only difference I can see is that the X on the sphere is slightly bigger and there no "lighting" in it, and that the name is in red.

 

[Xenio]

But maybe ask bkilian? :smile:

I think he said too much...

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1653139&postcount=75

The only difference I can see is that the X on the sphere is slightly bigger and there no "lighting" in it, and that the name is in red.

Red?

 

[(((interference)))]

That's a pretty 'meh' revision, I hope they adopt the 'flat' Metro look logo they're using for the Smartglass app and on Windows 8 for Xbox Music/Video: