I added extra for OS and controller..
Not a performer? lol.... much much faster then the rumored specs of the next gens and decent enough for 1080p pc gaming.
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I added extra for OS and controller..
Not a performer? lol.... much much faster then the rumored specs of the next gens and decent enough for 1080p pc gaming.
I see what you did that. You were talking up a SandyBridge CPU then when it came to assembly a competive box against a next gen console you had to swap over to a 6 int core / 3 module Bulldozer because, well, a 6 core SB would be an arm and a leg 
Oh, and we would have laughed at the 2 core SB
But I agree with your point that at a set price point, say $500 retail, you can assemble a nice kit. Considering the parts are all retail (retailer and often distributor mark up, built on various production lines and individual packing, etc) it is indicative that some hardware, but not all, is not outlandishly expensive--but a solid SB is!
Oh, and we would have laughed at the 2 core SB But I agree with your point that at a set price point, say $500 retail, you can assemble a nice kit. Considering the parts are all retail (retailer and often distributor mark up, built on various production lines and individual packing, etc) it is indicative that some hardware, but not all, is not outlandishly expensive--but a solid SB is!
It depends what the bad rumors are. The cpu's certainly stronger than that in the 3850 and 4GB is twice the ram of the worst estimates. I'm not sure how a vanilla 560 compares to the apu+disctrete rumors. Id guess in amd terms its about equivilent to a 6850.
Id certainly expect more power from the consoles regardless though.
Depends what comparison is being made, which I've no idea what people are arguing about!
Is this the price of a PC that gamers will buy instead, or a price of what hardware could go into a console? If the latter, then OS is a smallish RnD costAre you joking? May I kindly suggest you go and read a few reviews?
The rumored 6670 in the machine would get completely and utterly destroyed by that GTX 560.
AMD 6850 vs Nvidia GTX560
I would dare say that next gen won't see the production price /BOM go down as fast as for previous generations. It's the elephant in the middle of room.
Cheap shrinks are athing of the past.
Wrt to the CPUand the 16 cores rumor I was researching IBM roadmap and find out that IBMshould release their new power8 by 2013 and using a 22nm lithography. I'm not expectiong a power8 in the next box but 16 potent cores could be packed using this node.
Overall I'm no longer giving credit to anything in regard to Durango, way too much diverging noise.
16 cores sounds like a lot. Charlie report about a SoC are odds (as well as the quantity he was speaking about, be it xbox related I see it unlikely to relate to MSFT next generation system.
The more I think the more I find that if anything would make more sense as the number of SIMD/CU.
EDIT
I wanted to add in regard to comparison between Bulldozer Pildriver Streamroller cores ans SnB or IB that by 2013 the metric of performances should be Haswell and I've a gross feeling that Intel may impress (again like from core 2 to nehalem, so quiet a jump).
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
Going off a typical console launch price..
£500 with an OS and controls...
That would piss over a console, sticking that lot in a closed box would be tricky given heat and power requirements but chuck in bulk orders and other big savings and it would work out quite a bit cheaper to build then the price above.
The sheer savings in PCB components alone is quite large when moving to a single PCB in a console.
Now all you have to do is figure out how to cut some more of the cost off of that.
Figure out how to get it into a box significantly smaller.
How to cool all of that well enough that it doesn't end up being significantly louder than the launch X360 in the small box meant to fit in a home entertainment cabinet. Hint: we can't use 200 mm exhaust fans, we can't use 120 mm or even 92 mm CPU cooling fans unless that fan is also used to cool the entire system, etc...
All of which means expensive and/or exotic cooling solutions driving the cost up quite significantly.
That doesn't even factor in the cost of attempting to put all of that on a single PCB that will fit in a case similiar to the size of the original X360.
Speaking of a case the size of the original X360, that means no 3.5" HDD. So you can roughly double the cost of the included 2.5" HDD. Or triple to quadruple the cost for a 7200 RPM drive such that loading times and/or streaming times won't be absolutely atrocious on games capable of utilizing 4 GB of RAM.
Next gen consoles are going to be a huge balancing act when it comes to cost, performance, power consumption, cooling and noise.
I'd say the most powerful practical GPU you could stick in one would be a 7750 due to the low power (75 watts or less at load) and decent performance at that level. Move up to a pitcairn and suddenly the console is going to be dangerously close to consuming over 200 watts at load for the whole system.
And yes, for a console going into a home entertainment system, the manufacturer's are going to want to try to hit 200 watts or less, although I have a feeling we may end up bumping just north of that with quieter and cooler versions coming out after a year or two.
If you want to try to imagine what in the PC landscape could end up in next gen consoles, the best place to start is with laptops and laptop components.
All of the above is also why it's incredibly unlikely that either company is going to even remotely try to enable 4k gaming. If we're lucky, 1080p will become standard, with high profile 60 FPS games likely sticking to 720p.
Regards,
SB
Silent_Buddha
Legend
It's a start, but note that to try to maintain some semblance of low noise while keeping heat in check, it's limited to 90 watts total system power consumption.
Cooling versus noise is always a problem when you get to smallish cases meant for a home entertainment system. And 90 watts of total system power isn't going to get you a whole lot of performance.
Regards,
SB
There's no reason why you couldn't design it with an external 200W PS. Heck I could design a chassis myself and manufacture it myself using basic machine shop techniques. In fact I actually plan on manufacturing my own mini-ITX line of aluminum cases with external fullsize power supplies that can go up to 500W. I just purchased a nice quiet dual fan Thermaltake 430W PS for $22 that I'll be using as a custom external "brick". My custom uATX case will actually be smaller than X360S yet able to support highend components.
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even with external PSU, the internal still get hot. like in Xbox 360, it use external 200W PSU (or is it now 100W ?) and the cooling still inadequate inside the console box.
but with 90W inside console, and with external PSU, maybe they can design the console with proper cooling?
but with 90W inside console, and with external PSU, maybe they can design the console with proper cooling?
french toast
Veteran
I agree with both your shopping cart and your overall point...that making a high end console is not the meal some are painting it out to be...
Even if you take that spec, you could reduce it by chopping the HDD down to 64GB...£56 seems ridiculous amount to be spending on just storage.
-That would keep costs down and allow Microsoft to reap some of the costs back with upgrades.
-Making custom parts and chopping out all the bloat that isn't needed....add to the fact you would be going PPC that would be more efficient than BD...with huge savings from buying in bulk rather than retail..and that number could easilly come down to $400.
If what we got in 2005 happened and was stuffed into that little white box, then you could certainly stuff the above hardware in there..defo.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Take a look at any stock HS/fan that comes with even the budget 100 USD AMD CPU's and they are still quite significantly larger than what was used in the Launch X360 which already suffered from space/power/heat/noise problems.
You greatly underestimate the problems with getting your chosen components to work well in a console as large as the launch X360.
The GTX 560 alone consumes over 150 watts at load. Which is going to put out a significant amount of heat in a relatively small case requiring relatively small fans to exhaust said heat.
Depending on the design of the console you may be limited to 40-60 mm fans. Not the 120+ mm fans you have in standard PC cases. Nor are you going to be able to stuff the extremely large (again small console case) GTX 560 heatsink/fan into said console.
And that's only the very start of your problems. How about having less than 50 watts to budget for the rest of the system if you want to attempt to stay at 200 watts or less? I'm pretty sure that CPU you linked isn't a 35 watt (or less) TDP processor. And you still need power for the RAM/HDD/BRD/fans/etc...
Again as I said previously, if you want to try to make something in the PC world fit into a home gaming console, start with either small HTPC builds or Laptop computer builds. You'll see that costs start to rise quite rapidly if you want decent gaming performance in a small (compared to desktop PC) form factor as cooling and noise become a quite significant issue. Not to mention just trying to get all that stuff into such a small form factor in the first place.
Regards,
SB
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
To some extend isn't it more a question of how much air can you get flowing in and outside the box rather than case volume? Besides ATX isn't efficient at all when it comes to handling heat. You only got casefans to get rid of the heat and meanwhile the cpu and gpu are just heating up the same air that the cpu and gpu fans use to cool them.
In a console you could work with a much better case design and have the gpu and cpu fan(s) draw air from the outside and have the hot air exit the console. That way you only have some heat from the mainboard, memory and hdd left and you probably don't need much airflow to cool that.
With a proper design I think you could defenitly fit the mentioned hardware in a box around the size of a x360.
In a console you could work with a much better case design and have the gpu and cpu fan(s) draw air from the outside and have the hot air exit the console. That way you only have some heat from the mainboard, memory and hdd left and you probably don't need much airflow to cool that.
With a proper design I think you could defenitly fit the mentioned hardware in a box around the size of a x360.
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