News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[the ugly cat]

I agree with Xenio how can you take VGLEAKS word over someone at UBISOFT or BLIZZARD this doesn't make sense to me!!! There is a ton of this on all forums! I will not be suprised if the specs will be totally different from VGLEAKS since there info is over a year!!

 

[MrFox]

There is too little data in the Yannis Mallat quote, and people paraphrase it in order to change it to mean whatever they want. He said aligned. That doesn't mean much, and the specs we've had so far can be said to be "aligned with". It's worthless data.

Blizzard didn't say anything. Once again, people paraphrase the info to use Blizzard as the source, while it isn't. It's just a guy with a job there, who's breaking NDA (why wasn't he fired yet?). You should take into account the job position and level of technical knowledge of the employee (I work with artists, they know what RAM is, but have no idea about DDR3 or GDDR5 or Rambus being any different from each other).

Personally, I'm dismissing these two sources as noise.

 

[Exophase]

guess what?
latency in gp-gpu computing

And if that alone is enough to justify a huge chunk of die area on - and I doubt it - then why bother making that RAM suitable as both render target and texture source? Neither of those things tend to be very latency sensitive. If you want low latency just for GPGPU you should make a plain old scratchpad that the TMU and ROP caches don't go through.

ok, Blizzard don't know anything, Ubisoft too, the only ones that know the facts are some guys in a forum that read on vgleaks.com, the same vgleaks.com that give wrong specs on orbis (indeed, those guys don't believe the 8 GB on orbis before Sony announcement)

I don't see how you can take a comment that the two will be similar as indication that Durango will have GDDR5. Similar doesn't mean identical. Having the same CPU type, core count, and GPU type (but different CU count) is already pretty damn similar as far as consoles have historically gone.

I believe VGLeaks over some forum comments from people who allegedly work for big companies not because I give any special authority to the website but because of the nature of the information itself. The Durango leaks include very detailed and professionally written developer documentation describing the system. This documentation provides a bunch of information that isn't new to people who are familiar with the CPU and GPU described but useful for developers. So a third party could have written it, but it's a tremendous amount of work and doesn't fit at all with the usual one sentence broken English bullet points you get with BS leaks.

Yes, some sources were pretty confident that Orbis would have 4GB - although I don't know of anyone who said 8GB was impossible (I heard some "very unlikely" statements out there). Most likely Orbis really was 4GB until fairly shortly before the announcement. Changing the memory amount at the last minute was doable because the APU itself didn't need to be changed to accommodate it, and the board layout could have already been made so that it could handle either 4GB or 8GB. On the contrary, changing memory technology from DDR3 to GDDR5 is a huge deal and is not something MS could have done without a big impact to cost and time.

 

[ERP]

Even with what Microsoft may have, the impact of kinect wasn't as much as the Wii in particular. the developers and the fanbase were at fault for both progresses of the Wii and kinect. for both kinect and the Wii-U both are relying on the good faith that developers will immediately adopt it ; when in reality they should be pampering it them selves with what they can do for it. (same goes for the vita)

all these devices are made in hopes that a 3rd party developer makes them popular. in comparison we have already seen and heard what developers want.

Actually I don't think this is true.
What the Wii had was something that people who wouldn't normally buy a games console could instantly "get", it required no explanation, and that's exactly why WiiU failed, the tablet in the controller just doesn't hit the same buttons.
What MS needs to do with Kinect on Durango to attract a broader audience is to demonstrate a compelling use for it in Durango experience that people seeing it for the first time get without an explanation. That doesn't necessarily mean broad adoption by game developers, but if it's in the box developers will use it.
Now whether MS can pull that off is another question.

 

[warb]

The move engines, as presented this far, aren't anything spectacular. Certainly nothing revolutionary, or doing anything that couldn't be accomplished some other way. They add a little bit of convenience and efficiency and that's it. They don't lift durango as a whole to an entirely new level.

Stop chasing fairy tale dreams people, please.

It's fairy tale dream that they'd mention what's in the box if those things don't lift it up to a whole new level?

I think they'll talk about their hardware at their hardware reveal, and talk up any unique features.

 

[the ugly cat]

I agree with Xenio how can you take VGLEAKS word over someone at UBISOFT or BLIZZARD this doesn't make sense to me!!! There is a ton of this on all forums! I will not be suprised if the specs will be totally different from VGLEAKS since there info is over a year!!

And if that alone is enough to justify a huge chunk of die area on - and I doubt it - then why bother making that RAM suitable as both render target and texture source? Neither of those things tend to be very latency sensitive. If you want low latency just for GPGPU you should make a plain old scratchpad that the TMU and ROP caches don't go through.



I don't see how you can take a comment that the two will be similar as indication that Durango will have GDDR5. Similar doesn't mean identical. Having the same CPU type, core count, and GPU type (but different CU count) is already pretty damn similar as far as consoles have historically gone.

I believe VGLeaks over some forum comments from people who allegedly work for big companies not because I give any special authority to the website but because of the nature of the information itself. The Durango leaks include very detailed and professionally written developer documentation describing the system. This documentation provides a bunch of information that isn't new to people who are familiar with the CPU and GPU described but useful for developers. So a third party could have written it, but it's a tremendous amount of work and doesn't fit at all with the usual one sentence broken English bullet points you get with BS leaks.

Yes, some sources were pretty confident that Orbis would have 4GB - although I don't know of anyone who said 8GB was impossible (I heard some "very unlikely" statements out there). Most likely Orbis really was 4GB until fairly shortly before the announcement. Changing the memory amount at the last minute was doable because the APU itself didn't need to be changed to accommodate it, and the board layout could have already been made so that it could handle either 4GB or 8GB. On the contrary, changing memory technology from DDR3 to GDDR5 is a huge deal and is not something MS could have done without a big impact to cost and time.

Thats the thing what if it was GDDR5 the whole time and not DDR3???

 

[warb]

GDDR5 along with esram doesn't make much sense for these GPUs, and would make this most expensive system by far.

Esram is there because the main memory is DDR3.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Thats the thing what if it was GDDR5 the whole time and not DDR3???

That doesn't make sense. MS could have provided devkits with 4/6 GBs GDDR5 and 4+ GBs DDR3 as far easier and more accurate hardware emulation than eSRAM which we know is in there. We also know from developer documents as of January that the devkits had DDR3.

 

[Aeoniss]

The point of reference for much of this info is reportedly the actual developer documents that developers are getting with their SDKs to write Durango software. If we accept that (and comments by those who should know have supported this), then all the rumours should be viewed in context of the 'known' information, rather than the common preferred rumours being interpreted on the premise that MS's security is air-tight.

An understanding of human nature tells us if MS was supplying information to people, someone somewhere would pass that on. There may be identifying marks on the documents to help track violators of NDAs resulting in no public release, say, and we only hear from 'trusted sources', but an NDA doesn't shut people up, nor does a promise that you won't tell anyone. That's why rumours start to coalesce towards a status quo understanding as the release nears for all platforms, and in my experience this common understanding has always been accurate. It was accurate for PS3, XB360, Wii, WiiU, and PS4. The greatest ever upset in predicting technology was PS4 moving from 4 GBs to 8 GBs, which really isn't that extreme a difference and certainly doesn't undo any of the rumours except one quantity. The notion that we'll see a change from 12 CU+8 core Jaguar + SHAPE + Memory units + DD3 + ESRAM to something radically different is extremely implausible, going against everything experience and understanding point to.

Solid post.

That being said, though, I wonder if when the release hits Microsoft will be less direct about the capabilities of their machine. For instance, I'm not sure that they will up and directly say how many CU's are in the box or the GPU's flop count unless they can find a way to put positive spin on it.

It's not likely that it will be a repeat of last gen (as has been pointed out numerous times by people here) where extensive twisting of numbers result in drastically inflated performance figures..

So for the 21st (presumably) I do wonder about the presentation.

 

[DJ12]

guess what?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ploughing-fields-the-boss-of-ubisoft-montreal

Now with context.....

"It's well-known that their system used to be hard to tame," he said. "So we were very pleased, and doubly pleased because all the time and effort we already put on the high-end PC was really paying off. That's why we were able to showcase a good chunk of playable code of Watch Dogs at their media briefing in February. That speaks for itself in terms of how ready we are on the next-gen."

Predictably, Mallat wouldn't go into detail on what he expects from Microsoft's next-generation console, but did say he it will be "aligned with what Sony announced".

"It's going to be connected. It's going to be social. It's going to be immersive. It's going to be interactive," he said.

Translation:

Both are like PC, Both are internet enabled devices, both have social aspects, both offer immersive experiences that will be interactive.

You are reading something into the comment you want to and as usual ignoring what it does say.

Same answers when I wrote that inside durango could be another chipset/apu, ridiculous etc
then hop, maybe there's the 360 chipset.... ok

after that I wrote, maybe there's some special sauce? again ridiculous etc
then HOP, SHAPE monster audio block, ok

after that I wrote, maybe could be possible to raise clocks? again ridiculous
but when the same thing was written in the orbis thread, all discussing about cpu@2 GHz etc ok

1. There isn't.
2. Mentioned in vgleaks article MONTHS ago, but you don't believe that website though. Although it is cool, and I believe designed in some part by the guy you don't believe lol
3. Mentioned by a zero post forum troll, validity ZERO

 

[warb]

When he says aligned, he probably means same amount of RAM, same CPU, comparable GPU and bandwidth. It'll run the same games without huge compromises. Unlike the WiiU.

 

[DJ12]

No, when he says aligned he means what he actually said.

Immersive, interactive, social, internet enabled and PC based.

He doesn't mention anything technical throughout the entire interview, but you want to read something technical into a vague comment, he then goes on to explain?

 

[warb]

I remember Microsoft's PS3 performance comparison for the 360? Those general purpose processing and bandwidth charts.

They'll definitely talk up their box, find something it does better.

 

[warb]

No, when he says aligned he means what he actually said.

Immersive, interactive, social, internet enabled and PC based.

He doesn't mention anything technical throughout the entire interview, but you want to read something technical into a vague comment, he then goes on to explain?

He went on to say that. "Aligned with what Sony announced" follows talk about PS4 hardware, so it doesn't seem a stretch to take it that way.

 

[bkilian]

Some thoughts..

For those insiders, or ex Microsoft people ( for example bkillian) and others. I have to ask some questions, because somehow, I don´t make sense of all of this..

Firstly, people who are not working for MS anymore, are you not still bound by a NDA?
And if yes, basically, you cannot deny nor confirm if the VGleaks are correct? Or how does this work?

Because I see lots of comment from people that speculate about other specs than the VGleaks and that they are being shot down from you guys. So how is it then? Bound by NDA or not? And if not bound by NDA, why dont you tell us more? Not just tiny pieces but the whole shabang?

Secondly, we heard lots of comments about how air tight security is at MS camp in the Xbox division. SO much that it is said that even within the Xbox group, there are groups that don´t "know" what the other group is doing. Is this correct? And if so, could this mean that the information you give/let us know, might just be one sided?

I just find it odd that when hearing other devs talk about next gen and especially Durango, they are like "Sorry, no comment on next gen Xbox", "we cannot talk about it".. "is it really coming?".... "what is sasquatch".. well, you get the point.

yes, MS has not announced anything yet but everything MS has been doing with Durango seems crazy secretive, even more so than 360.

Im sorry if I come out offensive or something like that, Im just curious because it does seem very odd that people here and at neogaf take what you say as the real deal and still, if its like the rumors are saying, that within Xbox group, that even there nobody knows everything (well, except project managers, or whatnot) then how can be know that what you are telling is correct for 100%?

Man ohh man I wish I could go to bed now and wake up by the 21st, because all of these rumors about Durango specs are getting quite out of hand now..

But seriously, no hard feelings, Im just curious on what to believe here..

There are definitely things I can't say. And if you read my posts closely, you'll see I have not confirmed or denied any leaks. The only thing I said about the vgleaks rumors is that they were not drawn or written by vgleaks itself, that leaves a whole host of folks they could have been created by.
And yes, definitely, there were things I never knew. I do not know the rumored console's name. I do not know its form factor, or the power draw, or it's cost. I do not know (entirely) what the UI will look like. I do know pretty much everything a third party developer would know, as well as a lot of things that third party developers would not need to know.

If I were still at MS, I would be even more careful, but I'm still pretty careful in what I say.

And, as always, caveat emptor. My opinions are usually just that, read things into them at your peril.

 

[the ugly cat]

That doesn't make sense. MS could have provided devkits with 4/6 GBs GDDR5 and 4+ GBs DDR3 as far easier and more accurate hardware emulation than eSRAM which we know is in there. We also know from developer documents as of January that the devkits had DDR3.

But don't Dev Kits change al the time closer to release!!

 

[DJ12]

He went on to say that. "Aligned with what Sony announced" follows talk about PS4 hardware, so it doesn't seem a stretch to take it that way.

Seriously, it doesn't and yes you are making quite the stretch taking in that way.

He talks about PC development, and how PS4 is PC like, and then the other things I mentioned, in no way does this tell you xbox and PS4 are comparable in power memory or anything else (other than the things he actually said) you and others would like to add to the quote.

 

[Bagel seed]

Why bother trying to decipher and read so much into PR/non-technical dudes (mis)quotes of what Durango's true specs will be when we've already got people who worked on the damn thing tell us straight out what the real deal is, and on this board to boot?? Guys, this is too funny

 

[bbot]

edit.

 

[ERP]

But don't Dev Kits change al the time closer to release!!

No once kits based on real silicon ship it's mostly just bug fixes as various silicon steppings happen, and 3rd parties don't see most of those releases.
The software is in a lot of flux up to release though.