MS Xbox is gaining momentum...unstoppable...

[Teasy]

Sure, no problem.

Software, pre-drop Xbox units, post-drop Xbox units.

Ok, where does the $378 million come from though?

BTW I hadn't heard that XBox hit 5 million sold. What are the current worldwide sales for the big three consoles, anyone know?

Also could you answer my other question, how do you know that they've sold 5 million extra controllers?

 

[PC-Engine]

I have:

1. Digital camera from Fuji that doesn't use Magic gate memory sticks.
2. Two DVD players, one from JVC and another from Panasonic.
3. TV from JVC and a big screen from Mitsubishi.
4. MiniDV camcorder from JVC.
5. Receiver from Yamaha.
6. Speakers from AR.
7. GC from Nintendo.
8. DC from SEGA.
9. Laptop from Fujitsu.
10. 5 home built PCs with monitors from NEC.
11. Car stereo from Alpine, amp and speakers from Pioneer.
12. Cellphone from Samsung.

...and I would prefer to keep it that way

 

[BenSkywalker]

I can show you NPD numbers on this site that detail the top 500 selling games from July of this year. You can total the numbers up for yourself. Its shows the Xbox having shipped around 7 to 8 million games and NPD admits to only polling 80% of total sales.

So where did the other 10 million games that the Xbox shipped come from? Not from the EU. More magical mystery numbers.

Through July with the XBox still moving ~200K units a month. Figure for two months sales and the tie in ratio and you have ~1.7Million games sold. Then you have the launch numers. Roughly 1.4Million consoles with a 3.1 tie in IIRC. That's another 4.2Million titles sold. Then you have NPD's dreams of what they cover. 80%? Likely closer to 60%. Check NPDs yearly breakout of publisher revenue for the US versus the financial results for the market by those publishers in their financial statements. NPD covers roughly 60% of the gaming market.

I'm not going to get into the extended debate, but Johnny's numbers appear to be quite sound to me.

Sony electronic equiptment..... Has anyone bought anything durable from Sony in the last ~ten years?

 

[marconelly!]

"Besides, do you honestly think the US government is going to allow a foreign company to control the creation, sales, and delivery of all electronic entertainment? Dream on."

IF there's a standard established, they will accept it and other hardware makers will adopt it. Like a DVD. I think the whole thing with Sony and IBM is going in that direction, and Sony has said numerous times how they would like it best if PS2, GC and XB players could play against each other online.


"When the DC had better games, it was wait for Sony games with kick ass graphics. When the PS2 finally arrived it was lacklustre visually and many Sony fans started saying "it's all about the gameplay"

Tekken Tag was better looking than Soul Calibur in every technical aspect imaginable, and was a launch game. I don't understand how could anyone argue from that point on that PS2 has worse graphics.

 

[Magnum PI]

Sony electronic equiptment..... Has anyone bought anything durable from Sony in the last ~ten years?

i have a VVEGA TV. one year and still working

but what is durable now ?

 

[bryanb]

Through July with the XBox still moving ~200K units a month.

Its very debatable that the XBox has sold 5 million. It might have shipped 5 million but its highly unlikely to have sold 5 million. Microsoft can warehouse as many XBoxes as they want to. It doesn't do much for their bottom line.

The best estimates are that XBox having sold around 2.8 million in the US up to June of this year.

Again, more NPD from the USA numbers:

XBox in July: 159,000
XBox in August: 137,000

Now exactly how has XBox sold 5 million?

It would be nice if you guys could come up with numbers from real sources. Simply quoting Microsoft press releases doesn't lend you much credibility.

 

[BenSkywalker]

but what is durable now ?

My Panasonic SuperFlat is six years old and has yet to have so much as a hint of a problem, that should be an absolute given. I have a 19" TV that I have had for fourteen years that still works without any problems, that shouldn't be impressive except it was fairly cheap when new. My ColecoVision still works, as does my original 8bit NES. I have a stereo system from 1972 that still works fully(was my grandfather's and I kept it as it had a record player and they had stopped making them for several years). I also have a JVC VCR from 1980(top loader, manual nobs to "tune in" channels) which still works without issue.

If a piece of electronic equiptment dies within five years its junk in terms of durability IMO. Five to ten years is poor. Ten to fifteen is OK. Fifteen to twenty is good. Twenty and up is great, all IMO.

 

[BenSkywalker]

The best estimates are that XBox having sold around 2.8 million in the US up to June of this year.

Again, more NPD from the USA numbers:

XBox in July: 159,000
XBox in August: 137,000

Now exactly how has XBox sold 5 million?

Based on NPD numbers which are not, never have been and probably never will be absolute. Using the typical deviation between NPD and real numbers, the July sales would be ~265,000 with August at ~229,000 on top of 4.67Million.

It would be nice if you guys could come up with numbers from real sources. Simply quoting Microsoft press releases doesn't lend you much credibility.

This discussion has been done to death on these boards. NPD represents ~60% of the marketplace. When discussing absolute numbers you need to extrapolate off of the figures NPD provides. I've already stated how you can prove the general guideline of 60% is correct and I've been through this discussion too many times to bother going through the whole thing again.

It doesn't matter if it is Sony, MS or Nintendo numbers. NPD figures*1.67~=actual numbers. NPD gives you a guideline on sales trends, that is it. You can use the relative numbers they provide between hardware and software across platforms, you can not use them as absolutes.

 

[mkillio]

Sony electronic equiptment..... Has anyone bought anything durable from Sony in the last ~ten years?

I have a Trinitron from '91 or '92 and it still works fine.

 

[Magnum PI]

but what is durable now ?

My Panasonic SuperFlat is six years old and has yet to have so much as a hint of a problem, that should be an absolute given. I have a 19" TV that I have had for fourteen years that still works without any problems, that shouldn't be impressive except it was fairly cheap when new. My ColecoVision still works, as does my original 8bit NES. I have a stereo system from 1972 that still works fully(was my grandfather's and I kept it as it had a record player and they had stopped making them for several years). I also have a JVC VCR from 1980(top loader, manual nobs to "tune in" channels) which still works without issue.

OK.. but it's *old* equipment.

i wasn't questionning ancient equipments durability but contemporary ones. (whats is durable *now* ?)

if you buy a recent VCR at a decent price, it wont last for twenty years.. not to speak about a playstation..

If a piece of electronic equiptment dies within five years its junk in terms of durability IMO. Five to ten years is poor. Ten to fifteen is OK. Fifteen to twenty is good. Twenty and up is great, all IMO.

if they wanted, manufacturer could make freezers that would last twenty years (they had in a first time) but they intentionnaly make equipments that won't last for ten years..

i'm afraid most of the contemporary equipments won't last for much more than seven years. like it was programmed to die after 7 years, like a nexus .

 

[maskrider]

Sony electronic equiptment..... Has anyone bought anything durable from Sony in the last ~ten years?

Bought my Sony Trinitron TV in 93 and it is still working very fine, may be too fine that I want it to fail (my wife doesn't let me buy another if the current one is still working ).

My first batch PS2 (SCPH-10000) and PSX are still working fine, my old Sony mini MD/CD/Cassette combo is also working fine.

 

[bryanb]

This discussion has been done to death on these boards. NPD represents ~60% of the marketplace. When discussing absolute numbers you need to extrapolate off of the figures NPD provides. I've already stated how you can prove the general guideline of 60% is correct and I've been through this discussion too many times to bother going through the whole thing again.

Ok, then point me to a link that can back up your claim that NPD is only 60% of total sales. More magical mystery numbers.

NPD is more like 85% accurate. The only major US retailer that they do not survey is Walmart. Walmart ain't pushing 40% of consoles and games. And Walmart + the small fries that are not included in the NPD data is NOT 40% of the market.

Why do you just make these things up? Why isn't NPD only 30% accurate? You could then shoot higher. You could claim that XBox has shipped 7 million.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I have a Trinitron from '91 or '92 and it still works fine.

Bought my Sony Trinitron TV in 93 and it is still working very fine, may be too fine that I want it to fail

I have to say I'm surprised. This is the first I've heard of a Sony product made in the last ten years lasting that long.

My first batch PS2 (SCPH-10000) and PSX are still working fine

Any PS2s failing at this point are clearly due to complete and utter failure on Sony's part to try and make something that works. Any component should last two years under pretty much any condition.

You have a launch PSX that still works? Really? Haven't heard of any of those lasting longer then two years(most failed within the first year).

Magnum-

OK.. but it's *old* equipment.

i wasn't questionning ancient equipments durability but contemporary ones. (whats is durable *now* ?)

I have objects listed from '72 to '96. Planned failure was rumored to be the norm back in the early 80s(there is a pop culture reference to it in the movie 'Gremlins') and most of the components I listed are from that era or newer.

i'm afraid most of the contemporary equipments won't last for much more than seven years.

A good deal of my home theater setup is from '96, I'll let you know if it all dies on my next year (currently planning on picking up a Tau, that would change if my SF died on me).

 

[BenSkywalker]

Ok, then point me to a link that can back up your claim that NPD is only 60% of total sales.

I've told you how to prove it for yourself. Check NPDs sales figures versus financial reports from the companies they cover. If that is too much for you then that is your problem. As I stated previously, this applied equally to Sony, Nintendo and MS. You think I'm some XBox fanboy or something? If so, you are obviously new here.

Why do you just make these things up?

You start off with next to no credibility when you are new, you are losing the small portion you start off with by default. This board did not appear for your benefit, we have been around for some time and topics that have been covered extensively will not be gone over again because a rude new member thinks he is important enough to make it so.

 

[maskrider]

My first batch PS2 (SCPH-10000) and PSX are still working fine

Any PS2s failing at this point are clearly due to complete and utter failure on Sony's part to try and make something that works. Any component should last two years under pretty much any condition.

You have a launch PSX that still works? Really? Haven't heard of any of those lasting longer then two years(most failed within the first year).

I was not being clear on the wordings in my previous post on my PSX, my PSX is not a launch PSX but still has worked 6 years without a flaw.

My Japanese PS2 is a launch PS2, but for sure I've read reports on failed PS2, too.

May be I am lucky or may be they are just unlucky.

 

[bryanb]

I've told you how to prove it for yourself. Check NPDs sales figures versus financial reports from the companies they cover.

You start off with next to no credibility when you are new, you are losing the small portion you start off with by default.

So you want me to compare Microsoft financial reports to NPD data and somehow infer how accurate NPD is from that? Have you looked at Microsoft's quarterly reports? You think you can pull out total XBox shipments from numbers? And this is going to allow me to arrive at the magical mystery number of 60% for NPD console hardware reporting?

Geez, talk about a lack of credibility. I think you take the cake on that one.

I will always be rude when confronted with someone who enters a discussion with ZERO facts. I have no reason or desire to be rude when discussing a subject with someone who isn't simply fabricating things.

 

[marconelly!]

Ben you have some pretty screwed experiences if you can even ask for people to tell you what Sony product in the last 10 years hasn't failed.

Everything I have from them has always worked perfectly, as it is for all the people I know. Maybe it's just our good luck, I don't know...

Btw, financial reports probably list shipped units, and NPD tracks sold to consumer units, no? Besides, NPD knows how much ground they cover (it's 80% I think) and they estimate and increase their numbers accordingly. I'll double check this, but I think their numbers should not be additionaly increased, as they do that themselves.

 

[Vince]

Any PS2s failing at this point are clearly due to complete and utter failure on Sony's part to try and make something that works. Any component should last two years under pretty much any condition.

Ben, you know I respect you, but you sound like Johnney.. and thats not a good thing.

You have a launch PSX that still works? Really? Haven't heard of any of those lasting longer then two years(most failed within the first year).

I have a launch PSX, Genesis and a NES without the cartridge cover that all work.

The only problem I've ever had was with an N64 which would overheat and refuse to work. We remedied this in the short term by freezing it that night so we could play Then just took it back.

Two years? What the hell do you your consoles? I mean, either you guys are spewing rubblish, or you genuinly have a problem with taking care of your property... Which after looking (and smelling) the sterotypical guy at E3, may be the cause


As for my descusion about PS3/Destributed content - I'm goijg to shut up and just let it play out. People don't want to think and learn with an open mind and I don't have the time or patients for this.

PS. I've never been in a Sony Store.

 

[Vince]

XBox in July: 159,000
XBox in August: 137,000

To this:

Based on NPD numbers which are not, never have been and probably never will be absolute. Using the typical deviation between NPD and real numbers, the July sales would be ~265,000 with August at ~229,000 on top of 4.67Million.

Wow... This is amazing. And your saying he has no respect/authority...

Lets do an experiement using your logic as shown here:

]NPD represents ~60% of the marketplace. When discussing absolute numbers you need to extrapolate off of the figures NPD provides

Ok, lets extrapolate:

PS2's NPD #'s for August are ~ 450,000

Thus, now, correct me if I'm wrong: we need to find the missing 40%:

450,000 = x * 60%
450,000 = x * 0.60
450,000/0.60 = x

x = 750,000

Thus, they sold 3/4ths of a Million PS2's in August Alone!!!

Wow, are you willing to conceed that? Thats outragous... but all corect in Ben's eyes.

PS. I hear they're starting to follow in Japan's footsteps and are now using the 30M PS2's stockpiled in Sony's enormous warehouse for public work projects like house building and bridge contruction - So, perhaps it makes sence.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Ignoring the ignorant Vince for a second, Ben wouldn't it be closer to 70% for NPD, since Halo hit one million about about the same time that it's NPD numbers were around 700,000? That sounds a little more reasonable, but you would probably know better than anyone around here.