MS vs Sony Strategy - all in one vs. mix n' match

[22psi]

this thread just took a wrong turn at Albequerque

 

[freaqboy]

Freaqboy I think you made a nice attempt at a sane, deliberate listing potential PS3 strengths. However I think your "wins" are strawmen in and of themselves.

Lets start with your games/emulation discussion.

Xbox360 has Xbox Live and Live Arcade - The back catalog of ald games is huge and growing. You can play and be NETWORKED over live to play with others and be ranked with a uniform, unified leaderboard worldwide with other folks. Your MAME hack cant do that and NEVER will. Sony might do that but MS DOES IT NOW.

Again, I'm talking about a huge catalogue of games I already own rather than having to spend $10 a game to re-buy them over Live. Yay! Big win for Microsoft! (Depending on how you feel about ROMS) every arcade game ever made for free, or TEN DOLLAR APIECE GAMES! AND THEY COMPARE ME TO OTHER PEOPLE! Big win for MS! Never mind the fact that you won't ever see a Nintendo game, whereas there's already people running the entire Nintendo/ SNES catalogue in the PS3. How can you argue that as a win for MS?

And again, you bring up the ultimate useless argument ... "XBOX does it NOW'. Yeah, and the PS3 was released a week ago. I'm planning on buying a system for the next 5 years, am I really going to be dumb enough to assume things aren't going to change? Man, I should have bought a standard definition televison then, because most stations aren't in HDTV NOW. What a waste of money. If it's not there NOW, it's useless. Yeah, it's a win for Microsoft, but look at PSP development. They're putting huge effort into it, and they just announced that all old NEO GEO games will be on PS3. I would say in less than a year this point will be completely moot; whereas, like I said earlier, the PS3 advantages will still be there.

In addition, The software companies in partnership with MS not only get to update/upgrade the social aspects of their old games they can choose to update the game however they see fit just for XBLA wherre you will always play just the same old game.

You'll be playing the same old game too, just with RANKINGS! Actually no, I won't be playing the same old game, I'll be playing the same old games... all the ones I already own, without having to re-buy them.

Finally, They can get a revenue stream from through this model which is consistent with the effort to host on XBLA. Thats pretty good for MS, and the publisher also.

Just to point out once again that this is not unique to 360 as Sony has already announced a deal with NEO-GEO, and I'm sure more will be forthcoming. But I won't have to buy my games again.

Second, the same people who modded the xbox to do your type of hack will enjoy thay capability on PS3 but they are really an insignificant part of the market... in other words, 99% of people could care less that you could pull off that hack and NEVER WILL. I can BC my xbox 1 games and now its looking like atari 2600 games, NES, SNES, Genesis and maybe eventually Saturn, Dreamcast and Neo Geo games too if they are so inclined. Heck out side of first party PS games whats to keep publishers from publishing other titles? That strawman is dead now too.

No, you're turning this into a strawman. I said, 'This is a nice feature on the PS3 that makes it the best video game system in the world for those that know how to use it' and you said, 'Other people won't'. I don't care. I know how to do it, and I know you know how to do it. So for the two of us, we have instant access to a HUGE library of games, or in my case (since I stick to games I already own) a very sizeable library at no extra cost, with no loss of features other than ranking. (Do people really find rankings that exciting?) I know for me this is a great feature. Do you really feel you wouldn't enjoy such a feature? Would that not make it an excellent value for you? Maybe that's true; but I very much doubt people who know how to do it won't. I already have a large lineup of friends asking me to set up Mame on their PS3s when they get them. (Not an argument, anecdotal evidence, but an interesting thought.)

Third HD-DVD and HDD are available for those who want them. HW strawman dead there too...

...At a cost exceeding the cost of the PS3, with lesser quality. I would argue that the format is less likely to succeed as well, but that's a whole other argument, I'm aware of both sides so I won't bring that up here.

Fourth, Word processing on you PS3 sounds utterly ridiculous. At this stage most people who are buying a next gen console already have either laptop or desktop (which is how they got their information about the next gen most likely) and already have word processing software better than anything to be available on PS3... so your 1100 strawman is dead there too. You are only looking at the cost of a 360 which is $399.

Not a strawman, what am I building up there to tear down? It WAS referring to a strawman argument in a previous post(can't remember which), that went like this:

PS3 can be used as a basic desktop. <Someone's statement>
PS3 isn't a desktop replacement because in desktops, you burn DVDs and edit videos and you can't do that on PS3. <This is a straw man argument... Take a simple statement, bring it to an extreme level, and tear it down from there. Seriously, I do video editing on my PC, but how many other people do? Especially people that don't have computers?>
PS3 can surf the web and do word processing just fine <My last statement, not a strawman, contrary to your statement>


Then we get to your argument, which is DEFINITELY a strawman, "Most people have a PC, so they have something to type on, so they don't need the PC, so they don't need 1100 to buy a 360 and PC"
...Aha, sherlock, but if they already have a PC, then they HAVE spent $700+ on a PC as well as a 360, so they have spent at least $1100 on something that the PS3 can do for $600.
Your next argument will be that they have already spent that money on a computer, but I would argue that there are many homes that don't have computers, and I would guess that the slight majority of homes have older, antiquated computers that will not perform as well as the PS3.
Please respond to this block as a whole. How is this a downside for the PS3? If you have an HDTV, you either get a fully capable, basic computer for absolutely free that can do everything an average person needs to do, or you get a secondary living room computer that has full access to the Linux library of software, so your kids can type reports while you play Far Cry on your PC. If you don't have an HDTV, you can still emulate older games and run some Linux software, for absolutely no charge. And if you're not that computer illiterate, there is absolutely NO downside to any of this.

Three groups of people... Win, win, draw. The 360 doesn't come out ahead, any way you look at it.

Let see...
Homebrew - Great idea. MS sells the homebrew XBLA dev kit for $99 dont know what kind of support that equals but I am eager to see whether X360 homebrew will go over easier than PS3 homebrew. PS3 is difficult to program for professional teams of coders... Good luck though... ans Sony isnt so much supporting homebrew "free" as Linux is pretty much open Source and they dont have a PS3 distro they can charge for... Are you getting a devkit to create games from Sony somewhere because that would be the first I heard of that... in fact for teh most part RSX isnt even exposed in any of the Linux variants that are supposed to work on PS3 so exactly what are you "brewing" to? The Cell?

You're talking completely different things here, both companies have a Live Arcade/ Sony Live (whatever the hell they call it) talent development program (And true, right now MS is ahead in this department, but Sony just released their platform)... that's not the point. If all you want is purchaseable games made for the system, you can argue all day about which system is better Opening up the system to Linux is completely different.

Anyone can develop anything, all Linux tools and applications ever developed are open to be used. Yes, Linux is Free and Open Source, and they don't have a distro they can charge for... how is that a bad thing? No, the RSX isn't opened up yet, but I'm sure that'll change. Even if it doesn't, where's the MS equivilant? In terms of games, Doom 3 is already up and running on PS3 Linux (albeit slowly); all it took was a recompile. You can argue all day... "RSX support isn't there! You only have 196 megs ram available!" Guess what? That's 196 megs more available RAM than the 360 has on it's Linux distro. None of that stuff is likely to ever see the light of day on the 360. In fact, I'd put money on it. You can say, "It's a games machine!" I'll say, you can still develop games for free, or port games over onto it at no cost. There's always a cost on the 360. You can say, "Most people won't use it!" and I'll say, some people will, and for the people that don't there's no downside.

Any way you look at it, the PS3 comes out on top in terms of system capability. The only place the 360 comes out on top is online support; software. Software can change, system design can't. All the points against the PS3 could (and probably will ) disappear within the next 6-8 months; all the points against the 360 will be there till the end of the console's life. (Do you really, honestly think they won't fix background downloading, especially after all the work on the PSP?) And, although many people won't be knowledgeable enough to take advantage of it, to anyone who is, the PS3 is the best gaming system ever designed. (Well, OK, that's an opinion, but there's no system that has as many games that can be played on it, short of the PC.)

Motion sensing meet Rumble/FF...

I'll take that trade. (Subjective, I know.)

Please stop while you are ahead.

Nah, I'll keep building my lead, thanks.

 

[freaqboy]

Hell yeah, free and easy. Tell that to the Rainbow Six team at Ubisoft - what a bunch of losers. Delaying their PS3 version instead of whipping up freely and easily some REAL SOFTWARE, like an... emulator frontend - a minor improvement on top of an emulator other people wrote, which, in turn, is something to allow you to play games other people wrote.

First point - has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Have fun with that.

Second point - Open source software (and arguably all software) is by definition viral to some extent; people building on stuff other people built, creating something better. Is there something wrong with this? Yeah, I'm building a frontend for a console emulator written by someone else who based his work on a processor emulator written by someone else. Thanks for stating the obvious. What exactly is your point here? MY point is, once I've written it, everyone else on a PS3 will have a pretty front end to use with the emulators someone else wrote, to make it easier to play the games the other people wrote. Now, unless people are pirating the game that was written, everybody wins.

Maybe someone will add 3D graphics to the frontend that I wrote, making it a really pretty frontend.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Then we get to your argument, which is DEFINITELY a strawman, "Most people have a PC, so they have something to type on, so they don't need the PC, so they don't need 1100 to buy a 360 and PC"
...Aha, sherlock, but if they already have a PC, then they HAVE spent $700+ on a PC as well as a 360, so they have spent at least $1100 on something that the PS3 can do for $600.

Your horrible logic is hurting my brain...take the advice and quite while you're only slightly behind...

Maybe you should take a long hard look at the TOPIC of this thread, appeal to the mainstream consumer, mainstream consumers, get it?

Psssst...most mainstream consumers already own a PC, just a heads up!

 

[StefanS]

Do I really need to explain why this was locked?

BTW, the whole strawman thingy is really annoying.