Microsoft Xbox Series X|S Storage Cards

cheapchips said:
It's not really CF Express card. It's a custom SSD using a CF express connector. The connector isn't where the expense comes from. For MS's part, they've gone with a cheap as possible NAND and controller. The cooling's cheap/clever as well.
Click to expand...

cheap is your superpower right? ;)

Closest datasheet was here...

https://www.skhynix.com/products.do?lang=eng&ct1=55&ct2=58&rc=tlc

Couldn't find a part number decoder on their site, but I found something similar here...



Tommy McClain
 
cheapchips said:
It's not really CF Express card. It's a custom SSD using a CF express connector. The connector isn't where the expense comes from. For MS's part, they've gone with a cheap as possible NAND and controller. The cooling's cheap/clever as well.
Click to expand...

Do we know it's not? I think they have said it's hot swappable, it uses the connection, the controller apparently supports CF express, that's a lot of nods in that direction.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck chances are it's a Nvme in disguise? ;)

It's just storage with a fast read write speed, does it matter if it was CF Express? I have no interest either way other than discussion points. It's likely got a security sector burnt into it just as prior Xbox storage has so it is custom and we will require official drives.
 
Should be simple to see, get a CF Express adapter for the PC and plug in the Storage Card. Then again, that might be some awfully expensive blue smoke experiment. :LOL:
 
aside from being smaller, is there any advantage of holding the entire 1TB on a single chip?
Is the expectation that over time it will become cheaper? But isn't that only true if you are aiming for higher quantities ie 2TB?
 
turkey said:
Do we know it's not? I think they have said it's hot swappable, it uses the connection, the controller apparently supports CF express, that's a lot of nods in that direction.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck chances are it's a Nvme in disguise? ;)

It's just storage with a fast read write speed, does it matter if it was CF Express? I have no interest either way other than discussion points. It's likely got a security sector burnt into it just as prior Xbox storage has so it is custom and we will require official drives.
Click to expand...

The current cards out there are type A/B. The cost difference with current CFE cards presumably comes from them being quite a bit smaller than type C? Type C can use the cheaper NAND we saw from the teardown.

The standard is PCI3.0/NVMe compatible, so as you suggest, XSX storage is probably regular spec. Maybe with a bit of extra security.
 
turkey said:
Interesting that whilst they share the price of a cheap 1TB Nvme they don't share the price of the 512mb compact flash express card that they compare with.

That's £600 or there about, just to put the Xbox card into perspective, and the SanDisk is only rated to 1,700mb/s so possibly under spec.

Comparatively the Xbox card is a great price, but an equally insane technology to back given the cost. If it is CFExpress I think it's hot swappable and possibly the best user experience but let's hope it takes off and prices comes down quickly.
Click to expand...

To put the price in perspective, Seagate currently offers a 1 TB external USB SSD for the XBO.

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Port...-compatible-USB-STHB500401/dp/B07HP98FW6?th=1

The retail price is 199.99 USD but it sells for a bit less on Amazon. So it appears to be standard pricing on Seagate's part. It appears to be virtually identical to their non-Xbox branded drive.

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barr...ywords=1tb+xbox+one+ssd&qid=1602830164&sr=8-3

That one retails for 179.99 USD but sells for less.

So, there's a 20 USD difference (retail) for the 1 TB drive and a 10 USD difference for the 500 GB drives (retail) for the Xbox branding.

That might give us an idea of how much MS are asking in order to license the ability to sell the NVME drives for Xbox Series.

Regards,
SB
 
iroboto said:
aside from being smaller, is there any advantage of holding the entire 1TB on a single chip?
Is the expectation that over time it will become cheaper? But isn't that only true if you are aiming for higher quantities ie 2TB?
Click to expand...

Maybe easier manufacturing ? easier cooling ?
 
Nisaaru said:
Do you know or assume MS asked for a license from Seagate?
Click to expand...

No one who knows the details would be able to say publicly the terms of the deal. Rumors suggested a partnership to pool orders to get cheaper NAND Prices. In the past there has been a small licensing fee the console mfgs have charged in order to be officially branded.

Has anyone verified the same brand of NAND is used on the motherboard, still Hynix, even if there is difference of types like 8*3D vs 1*4D ?
 
BRiT said:
Has anyone verified the same brand of NAND is used on the motherboard, still Hynix, even if there is difference of types like 8*3D vs 1*4D ?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, there's not been a teardown of a working XSX yet. The DF and Austin Evans ones at MS didn't remove the SSD cover.

Jeff Grubb seems like a brave chap. Maybe he'll take the plunge before launch. :)
 
cheapchips said:
Jeff Grubb seems like a brave chap. Maybe he'll take the plunge before launch. :)
Click to expand...
Was watching something, think it was kinda funny xcast, and Alanah was like, it's ok to show this as Jeff has already, and the others was no no don't risk it he's a maverik, with his shades and long hair he doesn't care, and she responds with yea your right what was I thinking.
It's one of the things that made me seek him out :LOL:

And yep he's the one that tears down the memory card.
Think the console has to be returned though.
 
Silenti said:
Xbox Expansion Card teardown

https://venturebeat.com/2020/10/15/xbox-series-x-seagate-expansion-card-teardown/
Click to expand...

Is this TLC? The link on the article seems to indicate it is.

If so, that would mean effectively no worries about endurance, and lower latency than crappy QLC. Perhaps the single chip arrangement could also have a small positive impact on latency too...?

A single 1TB TLC chip might go some way to explaining the cost. The flash would be comparable in cost to that of the 980 Pro.
 
function said:
Is this TLC? The link on the article seems to indicate it is.

If so, that would mean effectively no worries about endurance, and lower latency than crappy QLC. Perhaps the single chip arrangement could also have a small positive impact on latency too...?

A single 1TB TLC chip might go some way to explaining the cost. The flash would be comparable in cost to that of the 980 Pro.
Click to expand...

Another article stated it is likely qlc. But I don't think there is any official info atm.

Edit: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7572...lc-nand-phison-e19-memory-controller/amp.html

About halfway down the article. There is no direct match in the chip database. It could be TLC
, But QLC is considered more likely.
 
There's still differences in QLC, like the Samsung QVO line has substantially higher TBW numbers than other QLCs drives and possibly some TLC drives.
 
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