Microsoft announces external HD-DVD drive for Xbox 360

[London Geezer]

The benefit of 1080p is 60fps, while 1080i can do 30fps just fine. So the real benifit comes from BluRay offering 1080p@60fps.

Movies will still be shot and displayed at 24fps.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

32:9

The benefit of 1080p is 60fps, while 1080i can do 30fps just fine. So the real benifit comes from BluRay offering 1080p@60fps.

Also future version can support 32:9 extra-wide screen or 1080P 120fps for 3D.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Change

Movies will still be shot and displayed at 24fps.

Better display capability and video processing technology will change recording format and resolution no? Remember Technicolor?

 

[Titanio]

As for the quality difference of the formats,it's not nearlly as big as sony fans are trying to convince everybody else and betamax(another Sony ....masterpiece) was better than VHS.

Common misconception, it's more complicated than that. You could not record as much on them as on VHS, which was a big factor in consumer preference at the time. It also did not enjoy the same content support as VHS. VHS was also JVC's masterpiece - who are now firmly behind Blu-ray

On a general note about pricing, Blu-ray will be covered on the less expensive end of the spectrum in the next several months in ways that will make those $500 HD-DVD machines seem very poor value.

On an even more general note, about the X360 announcement etc. I think these are rather desperate moves given the content situation. For movies, there virtually is a standard now. I don't care how cheap HD-DVD players are - not that $500 is cheap! - but I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole right now.

 

[BTOA]

Movies will still be shot and displayed at 24fps.

Due to limitation of hardware.

 

[fulcizombie]

This is probably very illegal and also makes serious problems for MS with Dell and HP.



Even at $500 consumer price, do you really think many consumers will buy? What is important is not a few silly buyers but average consumer shopping at Best Buy type store or Walmart no? These are buyers who will buy PS3 for many millions of sales of Blu-ray player.



$150 add-on unit is good for stand-alone price but not for Xbox360 accessory. Maybe some Xbox360 buyers will buy this but many many more will buy PS3 with built-in Blu-ray.



CES price of HD-DVD player is still same or more, maybe much more than PS3 with much superior Blu-ray.

Also price difference in disc is almost zero. Only real diference is cost of master equipement. For HD-DVD master equipment is upgrade to DVD equipment but BD master equipment must be bought new. But, BD master equipment is much smaller and less complicated so cost of disc is not so different for DVD. Advantage of HD-DVD cost is not because BD more expensive than DVD but because HD-DVD can be even cheaper than DVD because of no new equipment purchase. When DVD is started new equipment was needed just like Blu-Ray so Blu-Ray about equal to DVD cost, HD-DVD maybe little cheaper than DVD and Blu-Ray.



Actually difference is very large because better resolution and higher frame-rate is supported by much larger capacity of Blu-ray.



I think Blu-ray needs Sony than Sony needs Blu-ray. Sony will sell PS3 with or without Blu-ray so I dont think Sony fans should care if Blu-ray win or lose. But Blu-ray fans will care if PS3 win or lose. Problem for HD-DVD is people will pay $500 (some people even $2000) for PS3 at release time but how many will pay $500 for inferior HD-DVD format standalone or even $500 Blu-ray standalone? Not many.



That is sensible. So if no HD-DVD add-on is available you will prefer PS3 to HD-DVD standalone?

I'll just answer to your last question:Of course if the add-on is expensive i will prefer a launch ps3(at whatever price,lower than 500$ of course) to a stand alone HD-DVD player.

Oh and people who talk about all thee millions of consumer that will buy the ps3,that won't happen overnight,it will take YEARS.And in these years the much cheaper HD-DVD can have a very substantial userbase with MS' support through PCs,add-on for 360 and much cheaper stand alone units.

Things are not as simple as "the ps3 will sell a billion of untis so blue-ray wins"

 

[London Geezer]

Due to limitation of hardware.

Doesn't matter what it's due to. What matters is that movies you play off BDROM or HDDVD will all be 24fps. Or 30 or whatever after conversion.

Only sports and other TV things are shot at 60fps, and they won't be released on BDROM. Oh actually, we do see those silly "100 best goals!!1" DVD things in the shops.. u never know...

Still, for movies (which is what is being covered here), things will stay at 24fps for a looooooooooong time.

 

[BTOA]

Doesn't matter what it's due to. What matters is that movies you play off BDROM or HDDVD will all be 24fps. Or 30 or whatever after conversion.

Only sports and other TV things are shot at 60fps, and they won't be released on BDROM. Oh actually, we do see those silly "100 best goals!!1" DVD things in the shops.. u never know...

Still, for movies (which is what is being covered here), things will stay at 24fps for a looooooooooong time.

There's really no point in arguing about this, but some people will like the higher refresh rate as appose to the lower.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Price

Oh and people who talk about all thee millions of consumer that will buy the ps3,that won't happen overnight,it will take YEARS.And in these years the much cheaper HD-DVD can have a very substantial userbase with MS' support through PCs,add-on for 360 and much cheaper stand alone units.

Except that actual drive manufacturing cost is same for both so there is no reason why BD players cannot sell for less than HD-DVD drives and this will happen but biggest boost will be PS3 because that is guaranteed millions of sales first 12 months. Look at big Xbox360 demand. Same or more for PS3. But where is demand for standalone HD-DVD or Blu-ray player?

Microsoft "rebate" for HD-DVD has not so much effect even if MS HD-DVD "rebate" plan survives law-suit because it is low-volume computer equipment, not high volume home entertainment equipment so effect for movie studios is not so much.

 

[Titanio]

Oh and people who talk about all thee millions of consumer that will buy the ps3,that won't happen overnight,it will take YEARS.

I doubt about the plural. If Sony launches in 3 territories within a year, they should easily hit 3m. History is history, but for comparison's sake, PS2 was at ~10m 12 months after its Japanese launch (with all the hardware and manufacturing difficulties they had starting off then).

 

[London Geezer]

There's really no point in arguing about this, but some people will like the higher refresh rate as appose to the lower.

You really don't know what we're talking about do you...

 

[Gholbine]

This whole thing is embarrassing for Microsoft IMO. After all their talk of "both formats will fail" and "the future of HD content is in streaming", and then they go half-arsed at supporting a failing format? Why bother...

In any case, a lot of this rests on the price of the add-on, and we simply don't know it yet.

 

[London Geezer]

This whole thing is embarrassing for Microsoft IMO. After all their talk of "both formats will fail" and "the future of HD content is in streaming", and then they go half-arsed at supporting a failing format? Why bother...

In any case, a lot of this rests on the price of the add-on, and we simply don't know it yet.

If the thing is about 100 quid, i'd definately get it - that is, if i had a 360.
If the X360+HDDVD is the same price as PS3, as i said, the only deciding factor will be number of available movies, WHICH movies they are, and the fact that having 2 drives in X360 is a pain.

 

[BTOA]

You really don't know what we're talking about do you...

Excuse me??? Both HDDVD and Bluray can have movies encoded at 1080p. Framerate will always be the same, 24fps like every movie on the planet has.

To be honest, I have no idea what you guys are arguing about. I'm just going off of your comment.

 

[Gubbi]

This whole thing is embarrassing for Microsoft IMO. After all their talk of "both formats will fail" and "the future of HD content is in streaming", and then they go half-arsed at supporting a failing format? Why bother...

It's just a check box item. MS don't care if HD-DVD og BR wins, they do not own studios and they do not own distributors.

The HD-DVD drive is an accessory at the same level as the gimmicky DVD remote for XBOX, it just there so MS can say "Yes, we support HD movie playback".

Cheers

 

[fulcizombie]

Except that actual drive manufacturing cost is same for both so there is no reason why BD players cannot sell for less than HD-DVD drives and this will happen but biggest boost will be PS3 because that is guaranteed millions of sales first 12 months. Look at big Xbox360 demand. Same or more for PS3. But where is demand for standalone HD-DVD or Blu-ray player?

Microsoft "rebate" for HD-DVD has not so much effect even if MS HD-DVD "rebate" plan survives law-suit because it is low-volume computer equipment, not high volume home entertainment equipment so effect for movie studios is not so much.

All i see that the ACTUAL PRICES(not speculation on message boards) of HD-DVD players is much cheaper than blue ray.

I think that the demand next Christmas for example(where everyone is in a buying frenzy) will just as big for stand alone units that cost 499$ or even less as it will be for ps3.Playstation is not the only product that people buy you know.Add to that the HD-DVD equiped PCs and you have a case.Oh and what's to say that MS won't actually LOWER the price of the xbox360 so that when you get an xbox 360(that includes a hard drive) and a HD-DVD add-on the price will be similar to the ps3??People tend to point out the negatives of an early launch but they forget the positives an early launch can have on a price war.

 

[London Geezer]

To be honest, I have no idea what you guys are arguing about. I'm just going off of your comment.

That explains it.

In brief, movies are shot at 24fps, so it doesn't matter that refresh rate and resolution you use, the frames will only change once every 0.04 seconds.
1080p just means that the screen has 1920x1080 pixels and is displayed in a progressive manner, 1080i will just display it interlaced. Like today we have 480i/p or 720p. The movie still runs at 24fps regardless of the resolution.

 

[aeriic]

Actually difference is very large because better resolution and higher frame-rate is supported by much larger capacity of Blu-ray.

For a single movie, I don't think the 20GB capacity difference will affect the image quality. It may affect the extras offered on the same disc though. HD-DVD has the capacity for a 4hr movie encoded at 25Mbps. Both disc formats support the same bit-rates and codecs which make more of a difference in quality than the 20GB difference. There aren't too many 4hr movies out there. For content that is longer than that VC1 or MPEG4 codecs can be used to lower the bit rates and still produce video that's of equal or greater quality than MPEG2.

 

[BTOA]

That explains it.

In brief, movies are shot at 24fps, so it doesn't matter that refresh rate and resolution you use, the frames will only change once every 0.04 seconds.
1080p just means that the screen has 1920x1080 pixels and is displayed in a progressive manner, 1080i will just display it interlaced. Like today we have 480i/p or 720p. The movie still runs at 24fps regardless of the resolution.

Thats why I said there's a limitation due to the hardware, be it capture or display type.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Today, I don't think there are (m)any higher budget movies shot in 60fps digital high definition, but could it be different a year or two ahead?
I read somewhere that the new Superman was filmed at 60fps high definition.