Joe DeFuria
Legend
scooby_dooby said:
Fair enough!
Microsoft announces external HD-DVD drive for Xbox 360
- Thread starter BlueTsunami
- Start date
Fair enough!
scooby_dooby
Legend
Guden Oden said:
Well the genius lies in the fact that they managed to avoid the costs associated with a next-gen optical drive, while still supporting the next gen media format, and at the same time, allowing a full upgrade path for anyone who purchased any SKU. It's very smart actually.
So it's essentially win-win, and allows them to cost reduce much faster than Sony. Now, if they capatilize on this, and use extremely agressive pricing on their core package, this could pay off big time.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Magnum PI said:
Typically format wars are settled in the real world, with real consumers spending real money. Not on internet chat forums.
What are the odds of MS offering a mail-in mod? People could pay a fee and send their 360 to an authorized service center where the existing DVD drive could be pulled and replaced with a HD-DVD drive.
They could also add HDMI to the rear of the unit.. that is if they have not already figured out a way to pass an HDMI signal out of the A/V multi jack on the rear with an alternative cable.
This would keep the look of the 360 consistent with it's current form, save for perhaps a small 'HD-DVD' logo indentation on the external chromed surface of the drive.
MS might even offer a credit for the trade-in of your existing X360 DVD drive that way.
Might be a good option for many people who don't want to clutter the space where their 360 resides.
They could also add HDMI to the rear of the unit.. that is if they have not already figured out a way to pass an HDMI signal out of the A/V multi jack on the rear with an alternative cable.
This would keep the look of the 360 consistent with it's current form, save for perhaps a small 'HD-DVD' logo indentation on the external chromed surface of the drive.
MS might even offer a credit for the trade-in of your existing X360 DVD drive that way.
Might be a good option for many people who don't want to clutter the space where their 360 resides.
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(addressing scooby dooby post)
I could as well say that HD DVD can only succeed in your dreams.
I wonder which on of your imaginative scenarii ends with HD DVD dominance...
The support of HD DVD from studios and the industry is definitively lower than Blue-Ray, both in quantity and in quality. It's not just the number of titles that matters.
When the PS3 will introduce Blue-Ray in millions of households, and that will happen inevitably, the fate of HD-DVD will be definitely sealed.
I can only hope that HD DVD fail quickly because it can only slow progression of hi-def by introducing doubt into consumers minds, plus we don't need an interim technology when there is one that is a lot more futureproof. For me hi-def will be 1080p, no less, and with the best picture possible, which relates directly to the size of the media.
And how can some intelligent being hope that a inferior format wins over the superior one ? Brand loyalty ?
I could as well say that HD DVD can only succeed in your dreams.
I wonder which on of your imaginative scenarii ends with HD DVD dominance...
The support of HD DVD from studios and the industry is definitively lower than Blue-Ray, both in quantity and in quality. It's not just the number of titles that matters.
When the PS3 will introduce Blue-Ray in millions of households, and that will happen inevitably, the fate of HD-DVD will be definitely sealed.
I can only hope that HD DVD fail quickly because it can only slow progression of hi-def by introducing doubt into consumers minds, plus we don't need an interim technology when there is one that is a lot more futureproof. For me hi-def will be 1080p, no less, and with the best picture possible, which relates directly to the size of the media.
And how can some intelligent being hope that a inferior format wins over the superior one ? Brand loyalty ?
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Magnum PI said:
All the Xbox fans on this forum, because they know, Blu-ray winning in the CE space, is a huge boon for the PS3. They want Blu-ray to fail, as they see that as helping the 360 in it's fight.
I personally don't think Sony even needs Blu-ray for the PS3 to be a huge success, but I do appreciate the larger capacity that Blu-ray disks will afford PS3 games over it's lifetime, and of course having a Blu-ray player built-in will save me from buying a Blu-ray stand alone device, so it's a benifit of have the next generation standard included. Nice combo!
PS3 for the Win, and Blu-ray for the Win! Yeeehaaaaa!
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scooby_dooby
Legend
Magnum PI said:
as far as I'm concerned both technologies are adequate for what I want: HD Movie playback.
I'm intelligent to know how much video you can fit on a 30GB HD-DVD disc using VC1@16mbps, and I know that 4.5 hours is more than enough room for a single disc.
So my concerns are price and cost-reduction. Which can I have the cheapest the quickest? We're already seeing HD-DVD players at half the cost. That's enough for me to want HD-DVD to win right now!
You can already tell BR is going to be the more expensive, slower moving format. Is it worth it for twice as many hours of video on a disc that already holds ~5 hours? Hell no. 30GB is fine, cost is my concern not storage space.
Both of these formats are shit for backing up my PC's, we'll have to wait until HVD's to have a sufficient backup medium for our 500GB HDD's, so storage space is a non-issue really.
I could easily turn it around and ask why any intelligent being would want to pay more, and wait longer for a format that provides nothing but redundant storage space? 5 hours of disc space is more than adequate, so why would you shell out more of your hard earned money for something that is almost entirely unnescessary?
The brand-loyalty street goes both ways. Just as you have convinced yourself that 'true' HD starts at 1080p. Is that really the way ou feel after vewing all the different HD-formats on teh same display? Or is that just a rationalization you've convinced yourself of to support your company of choice?
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IMHO, there is only one question to decide the format war - which will be the first to offer a player for under $150 in Media Markt (here in Central Europe) / Best Buy (or whatever you have in the US). It will then gain all the support from the movie studios and CE manufacturers...
scooby_dooby
Legend
That's exactly how I feel.
First to the $150-200 range will win. The movie studios will come along, because there's money to be made and they won't pass that up.
First to the $150-200 range will win. The movie studios will come along, because there's money to be made and they won't pass that up.
500 GB is a lot of space, and 15 GB or even 30 GB is certainly not the best capacity of a media for making an archive of this disk..but:
* I don't think we all have 500 GB hard drives, i personnaly have enough with 80 GB.
* Backing up data will be a lot less of a problem with BR capacity than with HD DVD capacity, already available dual-layered with 50 GB.
Blue ray have other advantages:
* It is very solid and it can resist to a screwdriver when the HD DVD is as fragile as DVD.
* JVC has developped three-layer disc with both standard DVD layer and blue-ray layer. Of course it plays as a DVD when put in a DVD player, and as a BR disc when put in a BR player.
Yes the media is expected to cost a little more to produce but the media cost will remain negligible vs the total cost of the finished product. And production lines will be amortized. We have yet to know more about BR and HD DVD players price before declaring one more expensive than the other, PS3 should make for a cheap BR player.
Why limit to 16 mb/s video bitrate when BD-ROM transfer rates are 54 mb/s ?
The more bitrate, the less artifacts and the more details. If you go to 1080p you can only want the better picture quality.
And why care about VC1 when there is H.264 ?
references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD
* I don't think we all have 500 GB hard drives, i personnaly have enough with 80 GB.
* Backing up data will be a lot less of a problem with BR capacity than with HD DVD capacity, already available dual-layered with 50 GB.
Blue ray have other advantages:
* It is very solid and it can resist to a screwdriver when the HD DVD is as fragile as DVD.
* JVC has developped three-layer disc with both standard DVD layer and blue-ray layer. Of course it plays as a DVD when put in a DVD player, and as a BR disc when put in a BR player.
Yes the media is expected to cost a little more to produce but the media cost will remain negligible vs the total cost of the finished product. And production lines will be amortized. We have yet to know more about BR and HD DVD players price before declaring one more expensive than the other, PS3 should make for a cheap BR player.
Why limit to 16 mb/s video bitrate when BD-ROM transfer rates are 54 mb/s ?
The more bitrate, the less artifacts and the more details. If you go to 1080p you can only want the better picture quality.
And why care about VC1 when there is H.264 ?
references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD
For MS this might be genius, for Sony sticking a 'half-decent' BD drive into PS3 is genius also.scooby_dooby said:
They may well have cut costs on the immediate console but to set up a manufacturing line for another prehipheral will cost money (probably more than buying the drive off LG and sticking it in instead).
As smart as not rushing 6 months and having to invest all the cost of setitng up such a line? Their gamble of pushing to launch has arguably already failed but, and this is easy to say, with hindsight, would waiting and supporting HD have helped? Who knows.
Producing a new manufacturing line allows quicker cost reduction? It may allow more profit to be made on those few who do not want the movie facilities and those that do pay a premium, yes.
But this isn't the crux of the entire issue. This is. Sony isn't just a computer company like MS, it is a media company; a film producer, a music giant etc. etc. etc. They will may far more profit in being on the licensing board for BR (every player remember is money to them, as it is for MS and HD DVD) yet they will make far more on every disk they themselves produce and ship. We all know how music industry pricing works and where the money ends up, the studios pockets, and guess who is the studio.
Agressive pricing on the core package is unlikely when you consider that this is, supposed to be, the machine that MS gets money back out of. Even if they do agressively price the core, why would I not simply buy that over the premium then if the prehipherals are cheap? Why then, if prehipherals are that expensive, do I not buy Sony who have a BD drive already built in and, rival the premium package? Sony is the one who can now roll the dice over pricing, not MS. By adjusting the PS3 price so that it comes just shy of the price of X360 core + the HD add-on (unless it eventually ends up inside, costing MS again - to ditch stock I'd assume) people will have the dilemma and, you know what the man on the street will do. Go for the cheaper one that does, to him, exactly the same as the more expensive one.
Sony has MS again though, here, even if core is agressively priced and, if they simply meet it. They already make memory sticks at a far lower price than the current MS memory sticks (and make money even at this price), they are already using Bluetooth controllers, a lot of the MS 'upgrades' in the Premium package are, supposedly, PS3 commodities. Now the reason to even buy a Premium package is reduced (PS3 is priced just above Core and can do everything the more expensive Premium can and also play movies without more cash) so, Sony can force MS into selling far more 'less-profitable' core packages (EDIT: forgot to mention that this is if MS starts pricing battles and cutting margins) than they want.
If, and this is an/the if Sony, have done some decent research and, can see that they can afford to put a loss on the raw hardware and, get returns through the games/other divisions, they can rule MS right out of this pricing game. They have the advantage of an inbuilt next-gen video format, pre-existing production of all prehipherals at a largely cut price relative to MS, and are intending to put a lot of the 'special' Premium features of the X360 into their vanilla PS3. By directly targetting the middle-ground between you're Premium and Core in the case of a price war (again pricing just below the cost of the media-add on) they can really hit MS where it hurts as, to both propective sets of customers (aside those who buy solely the plain X360, which looking at many shops - not just forums - doesn't appear to be many at all) from your high-end buyers to Joe who wants a cheap BR player and a few games, you now have a solution that satisfies both with losses recoupped on your monopoly of every media outlet and device that you support.
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Do you know that Warner Bros, the studio behind Harry Potter movies, is on the board of directors form the Blue-Ray Disc Association ?expletive said:Ive got a ring of power and a goblet of fire that says it'll be a longer fight than you think.
They are commited to blue-ray, that includes "New Line" titles, ie: Lord of the Rings.
Magnum PI said:
They are also commited to HD-DVD.
http://www.hddvdprg.com/about/member.html
Warner has been waffling and seem to actually prefer HD-dvd because of costs, but I think all the studios secretly yearn for a format war.
