Ken Kutaragi:" I can produce the PS3 anytime"

[TrungGap]

In term of money, who do you think have more money to spend to win this war? Considering that Sony have already built up it's brand. MS have a lot of catching up to do.

LOL, every time I read your post I cracked up. It's not because what you wrote in your post, but what you have for your sig:

<Fashykekes> Capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my uncle Jack off a horse.." and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse.."

 

[London Geezer]

In term of money, who do you think have more money to spend to win this war? Considering that Sony have already built up it's brand. MS have a lot of catching up to do.

LOL, every time I read your post I cracked up. It's not because what you wrote in your post, but what you have for your sig:

I think MS will always have "more money to spend". I also think that Sony don't really need to spend as much because we all know PS3 will sell like hotcakes, which is why i do doubt sometimes the need to spend as much as they have in building the PS3. Obviously they had lots of reasons in making Cell and putting Bluray inside so i guess it's all an investment for them.

 

[Nesh]

Sorry, one last point. Monopolies are not illegal, only abusing that monopoly power. Spending money is not illegal either. In house expertise and IP are resources to be used, same as cash. They can all be used as competitive advantages. None of them are illegal. So no, I don't see the difference. All I see is your bias and your blatant MS-bashing, trying to paint Sony as good and MS as bad, when neither of these two companies even deserve your value judgements (in this particular area, at least). It's just business.

Who said spending money is illegal or that in house expertise and IP arent resources to be used??
Did I say that MS is bad or that Sony is good?Did I accuse MS?Did I say that XBOX has no good games or that its a shity console?NO!
Actually if you ask me I love many XBOX games.

I know its business.But that doesnt mean I wont talk about them.I try to be as objective and as neutral as possible.If some of my points dont sound all that rosy in some people's mind about MS its not my fault.Its theirs if they are anti-Sony, anti-Nintendo or XBOX-fans and assume things.These are facts and not the first time that such strategies have been observed and studied.

*shrugs*

 

[patsu]

I think people are mixing up "strength" vs "unfair advantages". Sony's strength is its brand and deep knowledge and execution about the CE industry. MS's strength is in software platform and software developer support.

Unfair advantages probably sneaked into the discussion because people were worried MS might misuse its monopolistic power again.

LondonBoy essentially elaborated the brand and brand promises of Sony and MS.

 

[Nesh]

I think people are mixing up "strength" vs "unfair advantages". Sony's strength is its brand and deep knowledge and execution about the CE industry. MS's strength is in software platform and software developer support.

Unfair advantages probably sneaked into the discussion because people were worried MS might misuse its monopolistic power again.

If you mean that MS will monopolise the console market thats not what I ment.Atleast personally.

 

[London Geezer]

People's mindsets obviously change over time, but not very easily.

People these days will be happy to buy Sony things because they had "that old Sony TV that looked so well and lasted for SO long"... Or they had "that old Sony walkman/discman that worked so well and still works today"... Or because "Sony stuff just looks so good!"... Or because "i had so much fun with playstation1/2!!"...

Only a few people have noticed that the quality of their products has been a bit slack lately - all due to change now with the fabulous Bravia LCD HDTVs.

They will be happy to buy a PS3 or lots of other Sony devices cause they feel - quite rightly so - that they're buying a quality product.

As for MS... People mindset is "that PC/windows crap always crashes and i can never get it to do what i want it to do for god'sa sake!!!"...
Doesn't matter that my system hasn't crashed since i bought it 2 years ago. Doesn't matter than now WindowsXP is actually quite good. People's opinion of MS has been so negative for so long that it will take time for them to accept an MS product at face value like they do with Sony products.

That's why there will always be a lot more early adopters of Playstation3/4/5 than any Xbox/360/720, whatever the quality of the end products is... People feel safer with Sony hardware than they do with MS hardware. Even all the silly horror stories of Playstation1/2 dying on people didn't really matter, as they were really a tiny fraction of the total.

Even the Bravia's have been flying off the shelves (well, as much as LCD can fly off shelves really) because not only they look damn sexy, and because they are just really good, but because they're "Those new Sony HDTVs!".

 

[patsu]

If you mean that MS will monopolise the console market thats not what I ment.Atleast personally.

No. More like MS misusing its monopolistic power in the PC market to push HD-DVD *hypothetically speaking*. Presumably the intent is to disrupt Sony's Blu-ray effort. Ok, this is an unfounded example for illustrative purposes, so hold your fire.

 

[Nesh]

People's mindsets obviously change over time, but not very easily.

People these days will be happy to buy Sony things because they had "that old Sony TV that looked so well and lasted for SO long"... Or they had "that old Sony walkman/discman that worked so well and still works today"... Or because "Sony stuff just looks so good!"... Or because "i had so much fun with playstation1/2!!"...

Only a few people have noticed that the quality of their products has been a bit slack lately - all due to change now with the fabulous Bravia LCD HDTVs.

They will be happy to buy a PS3 or lots of other Sony devices cause they feel - quite rightly so - that they're buying a quality product.

As for MS... People mindset is "that PC/windows crap always crashes and i can never get it to do what i want it to do for god'sa sake!!!"...
Doesn't matter that my system hasn't crashed since i bought it 2 years ago. Doesn't matter than now WindowsXP is actually quite good. People's opinion of MS has been so negative for so long that it will take time for them to accept an MS product at face value like they do with Sony products.

That's why there will always be a lot more early adopters of Playstation3/4/5 than any Xbox/360/720, whatever the quality of the end products is... People feel safer with Sony hardware than they do with MS hardware. Even all the silly horror stories of Playstation1/2 dying on people didn't really matter, as they were really a tiny fraction of the total.

Even the Bravia's have been flying off the shelves (well, as much as LCD can fly off shelves really) because not only they look damn sexy, and because they are just really good, but because they're "Those new Sony HDTVs!".

True.Not necessarilly true everytime.History has shown that a famous name doesnt always stay on the top.Sega being one example.Sony took first position with the first effort when they werent known to be as good in the gaming market as Sega was.
And a recent example is the replacement of Sony's famous walkman by the iPod.And generally as you said there is some sort of quality reduction in their products.But that ofcourse had an impact on them oterwise they wouldnt have put the effort and money to make the Bravia HDTVs.
Thats what I like when companies are facing the risks of competition.It forces improvement when they feel endangered.

 

[Nesh]

No. More like MS misusing its monopolistic power in the PC market to push HD-DVD *hypothetically speaking*. Presumably the intent is to disrupt Sony's Blu-ray effort. Ok, this is an unfounded example for illustrative purposes, so hold your fire.

Dont know for sure about that so I cant comment.But who knows.

 

[London Geezer]

Well but not necessarilly true everytime.History has shown that a famous name doesnt always stay on the top.Sega being one example.Sony took first position with the first effort.
And a recent example is the replacement of Sony's famous walkman by the iPod.And generally as you said there is some sort of quality reduction in their products.But that ofcourse had an impact on them oterwise they wouldnt have put the effort and money to make the Bravia HDTVs.
Thats what I like when companies are facing the risks of competition.It forces improvement when they feel endangered.

Well there are very clear reasons why Sega fell (they were broke after a few very very very bad decisions) and why the iPod succeeded (it was the first of its kind and we all know the story really, Sony and everyone else woke up too late for that).
It does seem that Sony are pushing the quality side of the new playstation, so that's good. They could have released a PS2.5 knowing they would sell lots of them anyway, but it seems they're really pushing the envelope wrt the hardware at least - whatever people say about the RSX being "crap" which personally i find ridiculous, in the scheme of things, since it will do its job way more than well enough, in the circumstances.

 

[patsu]

As for MS... People mindset is "that PC/windows crap always crashes and i can never get it to do what i want it to do for god'sa sake!!!"...
Doesn't matter that my system hasn't crashed since i bought it 2 years ago. Doesn't matter than now WindowsXP is actually quite good. People's opinion of MS has been so negative for so long that it will take time for them to accept an MS product at face value like they do with Sony products.

You hit it on the head of the nail. In addition, MS decided to enforce the perception by creating and refusing to fix the scratched disc problem. I know my toddler son *will* move the XB360 especially after I turn it on. Plus the power supply overheating issue.

These incidents just don't add up to a good consumer company brand. So yes, they have much convincing to do. Operationally, they executed better with the original XBox (Alas ! financially it was a bomb).

 

[London Geezer]

You hit it on the head of the nail. In addition, MS decided to enforce the perception by creating and refusing to fix the scratched disc problem. I know my toddler son *will* move the XB360 especially after I turn it on. Plus the power supply overheating issue.

These incidents just don't add up to a good consumer company brand. So yes, they have much convincing to do. Operationally, they executed better with the original XBox (Alas ! financially it was a bomb).

PS2 might ruin your discs if you move it while there's a disc spinning inside too. Many CD/DVD drives would actually.

You just SHOULDN'T move whatever you're using if there's a CD/DVD spinning inside.

 

[Nesh]

Well there are very clear reasons why Sega fell (they were broke after a few very very very bad decisions) and why the iPod succeeded (it was the first of its kind and we all know the story really, Sony and everyone else woke up too late for that).
It does seem that Sony are pushing the quality side of the new playstation, so that's good. They could have released a PS2.5 knowing they would sell lots of them anyway, but it seems they're really pushing the envelope wrt the hardware at least - whatever people say about the RSX being "crap" which personally i find ridiculous, in the scheme of things, since it will do its job way more than well enough, in the circumstances.

I agree.SEGA fell thanks to many bad decisions.I believe though that the same could happen with Sony if they make bad decisions.
Sony was never known to be as good in the gaming industry as Sega was.Sega had that title.Many expected that Sony would flop with the PS just as Panasonic and Goldstar flopped.But didnt.
Now we have MS not being known as a capable player as Sony is, while Sony has the title this time.And something similar already happened with the XBOX vs PS2.Many predicted that XBOX could die but didnt.MS was never expecting profits but for a couple of months they made some.Its not as hard for Sony to lose as many of us thing.
Sony may release a PS2.5 believeing they will sell lots of them but they could be wrong too.
Fortunately they didnt though.They did push the envelope because it seems like they are more pressured than before.They want to ensure first spot if they want to stay in the game and not suffer just as they did when iPod was introduced which was better than their walkman.If they dont it will mean the beginning of their turn to fail.Even giants fall sometime.And Sony knows that.

 

[patsu]

I tilted my PS2 a few times in the middle of a game and nothing happened (horizontal <-> vertical). Must be lucky.

The thing is these stories will perpectuate. e.g., Reports about Netflix refusing to rent out discs for XB360 also served to spread the perception.

 

[pipo]

I tilted my PS2 a few times in the middle of a game and nothing happened (horizontal <-> vertical). Must be lucky.

I've done it once with my 360 (before all the reports), from vertical to horizontal. No probs here.

 

[London Geezer]

Just don't do it. You risk ruining the discs and - worse! - the drive. Better safe than sorry!

 

[blakjedi]

Sega fell for very specific market reasons.
-Most retailers grudgingly sold Sega hardware and always promoted Nintendo hardare and games as superior.
-Most Magazine publishers felt the same way and their reviews showed it.
-With the exception of EA, Nintendo's publishing relationships made most of the great Japanese dev houses we love today - Square, Enix, Konami and Capcom for example. -Madden on Genesis did more EA than any single relationship in VG history.

Nintendo fell off for very specifc market choices.
-They pursued the kiddy market.
-They refused to pursue CD even though most of their devs asked for it and limited them to expensive, low potential cartridges.

Sony won because of CD and a very easy to get at 3D graphics chip.
-Tomb Raider showed off very graphics versus its Saturn counterpart (primarily the "transparencies" buzzword).
-Wipeout was the best competitor to F-Zero
-FFVII was on CD and took the PS from Good to Great (even though I myself hated FFVII)

MS lost Japan because its American.

In a nutshell.

 

[Nesh]

A very good detailed article on why SEGA fell

http://vgrebirth.org/articles/segabase/volume6.asp

 

[NavNucST3]

You hit it on the head of the nail. In addition, MS decided to enforce the perception by creating and refusing to fix the scratched disc problem. I know my toddler son *will* move the XB360 especially after I turn it on. Plus the power supply overheating issue.

These incidents just don't add up to a good consumer company brand. So yes, they have much convincing to do. Operationally, they executed better with the original XBox (Alas ! financially it was a bomb).

That is correct, every company should be held responsible for the ineptitude of its consumers.
Forget the fact that as a parent you could inform your child not to move the 360, forget the fact that it could be placed somewhere where it could not be easily moved, forget the fact that it could be placed out of the reach of the child. As a matter of fact WHY would my son even think about moving it, instead of playing the game or watch me play the game? My four year old has never even thought about flipping the 360 or turning it. The only thing he reaches for is the controller to turn on the 360 and he asks if he can play Kameo (his favorite game). Also, when was the last report of the power supply overheating issue (I know that doesn't mean it doesn't happen anymore).

I'm still wondering what MSFT enforced in the average consumers mind, while people were paying $800 on ebay for a 360.

I truly hope you buy a PS3 as well, and then watch/listen to all of the reports about issues for a month or so after release. However, once more games start to roll out, like magic, all of those reports will go away.
What perception did Sony enforce in peoples minds when the DVD crapped out on the PS2, I would say nothing juding by the hundred million consoles they have shipped...

Bottom Line: Once the games come no one seems to care anymore

 

[blakjedi]

Good read and basically exactly as I remembered it. All it ends up saying is "what was old is new again."

Dreamcast went the PS1 way next, then PS2 went the "convoluted Saturn" way... and people still chose the PS2. Not because the system couldnt compete but because devs psychologically preferred Sony at that point.