New Ken Kutaragi interview (2) @ PC Watch

[Sis]

I don't think there's any need to overthink it; $2000 was used arbitrarily.

He's saying Apple has the brand cache to push products at a price people wouldn't normally pay for 'inferior' products. He doesn't think Sony has that sort of cache in the computer market, but he's hoping over time 'Playstation' will become associated with computing in it's own right.

No, this thinking doesn't gel with me. The Vaio products are premium computers. Sony televisions are premium sets (certianly not budget). Sony does have the brand image to charge for a premium product.

The comparison, as I read it, suggests that Kutaragi is trying to imprint that comparison in the minds of the readers. He wants to convince people that the PS3 is really a high powered computer that if positioned as a traditional computer would cost several times more than it's being priced at. My only counter to this is that given the PC characteristics of the PS3, budget computers are a better comparison.

 

[Carl B]

I think you're reading too much into it Sis; I just think he's waxing quixotic about the associations certain brands have, and the premium they can thus command.

And I think in terms of Vaio, Playstation should be - and is - viewed completely seperately. I certainly hadn't thought of Vaio even once throughout this entire thread until you mentioned them by name.

 

[Titanio]

Then back to my original point: Apple has made a system to do what Sony wants to do in the living room. It's the Mac mini. HD media is the only thing it lacks.

(Ok, besides the ability to play the entire Playstation library )

Quite fundamental functionality for Sony

His point was clearly pivoted on what such hardware would be sold for under the Apple name. It's a fair one to make. You would not get a Mac with a 3.2Ghz Cell processor, BD drive, Geforce 7xxx etc. for $600, pretty obviously. It would cost a lot more.

how much ram do you think would come stock?

The current machine they sell for $2000 comes with 640MB of RAM total.

 

[ManuVlad3.0]

Then back to my original point: Apple has made a system to do what Sony wants to do in the living room. It's the Mac mini. HD media is the only thing it lacks.

(Ok, besides the ability to play the entire Playstation library )

And the ability to play Blu-Ray movies.

 

[TheChefO]

The current machine they sell for $2000 comes with 640MB of RAM total.

[lilJON] WHATT! [/lilJON

 

[Sis]

I think you're reading too much into it Sis; I just think he's waxing quixotic about the associations certain brands have, and the premium they can thus command.

And I think in terms of Vaio, Playstation should be - and is - viewed completely seperately. I certainly hadn't thought of Vaio even once throughout this entire thread until you mentioned them by name.

Certainly I'm not going to get hung up on it. I just feel it's a bit dubious to have an interview where you go on and on about the personal computing potential of your console and then compare it to a premium system. As Titanio responds:

You would not get a Mac with a 3.2Ghz Cell processor, BD drive, Geforce 7xxx etc. for $600, pretty obviously.

Obviously, you can't just transplant the guts of the PS3 into a Mac mini and call it a day. Apple designed the Mac mini has a personal computer that happens to fit nicely in the living room (or more likely, as a multimedia styled computer, not to be confused with a media center PC). Other than the BD drive, the things you list only help out on the game console side and is superflous to the personal computer side.

This is the problem with the all-in-one package. It has to make trade-offs, either in performance/feature or in cost. On the console side, they went for performance at the expense of cost. On the personal computer side, well, they went for cost at the expense of performance/features (thinking OOOE, more usable RAM).

I'm only humbly suggesting that what Sony seems to be targetting on the personal computing side could be accomplished with a budget line PC. As such, any comparison to a more expensive computer is completely missing the point, either on purpose or simply by speaking too loosely.

 

[Titanio]

Obviously, you can't just transplant the guts of the PS3 into a Mac mini and call it a day. Apple designed the Mac mini has a personal computer that happens to fit nicely in the living room (or more likely, as a multimedia styled computer, not to be confused with a media center PC). Other than the BD drive, the things you list only help out on the game console side and is superflous to the personal computer side.

I'm sure Cell/RSX etc. help with its media capability...

And obviously we can't just transplant PS3 into a Mac Mini, but Kutaragi was asking us to imagine that scenario and how much Apple would charge for such a system. That is all!

[lilJON] WHATT! [/lilJON

Yeah, check it out:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...ore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=253B4693&nclm=PowerMac

 

[Sis]

And the ability to play Blu-Ray movies.

The sentence of mine right before the one you bolded said exactly that.

 

[TheChefO]

Yeah, check it out:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...ore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=253B4693&nclm=PowerMac

Is this old???? I knew they gouged but .... WOW. What a fricken rip off.

 

[Carl B]

Certainly I'm not going to get hung up on it. I just feel it's a bit dubious to have an interview where you go on and on about the personal computing potential of your console and then compare it to a premium system...

...I'm only humbly suggesting that what Sony seems to be targetting on the personal computing side could be accomplished with a budget line PC. As such, any comparison to a more expensive computer is completely missing the point, either on purpose or simply by speaking too loosely.

Absolutely, I agree. Like I mentioned (was it even in this thread, not sure) I'm not sure if the Amiga model would catch on in the present day; but at the same time, it's hard to say to what extent they'll even pursue this talk here. Kutaragi's words and SCE's actions aren't always the same.

But yeah.

Anyway I just thought it was a brand comparison, but I guess there's different things to discuss depending on the lens the statement is viewed through.

 

[deathkiller]

why nobody cried when the ps2 launched at close to current 540euro in europe is beyond me...
i guess the internet=american prices

550+ euro in my country if you include the CPI and in France at least they didn't have problems for selling it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgZl0zlka08&search=ps2%20france .

 

[phed]

Where can I find the furukawa blog? google really couldn't help. non linear video is very interesting

 

[Nesh]

for those that misinterpreted KK's interview

A few other revelations appear in the Ultra One report, an investigative story into the reasons for the PS3's high price point. Izumi Kawanishi, head of Sony's Software Platform Development Division, commented to the magazine that one difference between the PS2 and the PS3 is that the PS3, as it was announced, is "nothing more than just the basic system." Sony is considering releasing models with larger volume hard disks and upgraded network features in the future. However, Kawanishi noted, Sony won't be changing CPU clock speed or memory amounts, as all PS3s have to run the same games.

Its apparent he wasnt refering to RAM upgrades

 

[TheChefO]

Its apparent he wasnt refering to RAM upgrades

Well - umm ... That's kinda pointless then. So it will be pretty much just entry level pc functions. Thanks Kuta.

 

[Titanio]

So it will be pretty much just entry level pc functions. Thanks Kuta.

Entry level PCs include Blu-ray?

The ultimate ambition would be to have certain more general software that works on Cell in a fashion that would smoke any PC currently, like that video editing software. But I think that's all that is for now - a slightly pie-in-the-sky ambition. Coming back down to the current main PS3 OS, you might argue that the added "computer-like" functionality is quite basic or entry-level (i.e. web browsing etc.), but even as things are at the moment, the other functionality not borrowed directly from PCs isn't really "entry level" (i.e. the gaming functionality, the blu-ray etc.).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Its apparent he wasnt refering to RAM upgrades

I'd like further clarification from another source on that. You can up RAM without interferring with the games at all as long as you preserve the current addressing. If there is to be further computer applications on PS3, they'll eventually need more RAM. 256 MB (DDR can't be used properly by Cell) is okay for simple home functions but software needs room to grow and add features and functionality as the users grow. In 4 years time there'll be HD camcorders around and people wanting to edit HD home movies. 256MB will be slow and they could do with the option to speed that up.

 

[TheChefO]

Entry level PCs include Blu-ray?

The ultimate ambition would be to have certain more general software that works on Cell in a fashion that would smoke any PC currently, like that video editing software. But I think that's all that is for now - a slightly pie-in-the-sky ambition. Coming back down to the current main PS3 OS, you might argue that the added "computer-like" functionality is quite basic or entry-level (i.e. web browsing etc.), but even as things are at the moment, the other functionality not borrowed directly from PCs isn't really "entry level" (i.e. the gaming functionality, the blu-ray etc.).

obviously the gaming/movie functionality doesn't change from this announcement but the ram issue will limit what could have been truly groundbreaking. It's a shame to limit the cell's potential in this manor as really I don't see the point. Why wouldn't they give users the option to upgrade the ram for pc functionality if they needed it?

edit - exactly Shifty!

 

[Titanio]

The RAM in the current system - I'm presuming - is not upgradeable.

Could they release a different PS3 down the road with more RAM for functionality beyond gaming? It's possible, but it wouldn't/couldn't affect games as such. That other exec is quoted as saying the RAM wouldn't change, but Kutaragi seems to suggest the possibility in his interview - I think both would agree that either way the amount of RAM for games will not change.

 

[Carl B]

I don't think you'll ever be able to upgrade the RAM; rather, I think you'll be able to perhaps buy workstation-esque PS3's down the line that simply have more RAM. If such a design model comes to fruition that is.

I think the Amiga model is what we should try to hone in around rather than taking it back to the PC again and again; a superior architecture can take you some distance even on 'meager' specs in other areas.

When I say superior also I'm refering to Cell and it's areas of strength, rather than a straight PS3 > PC type claim, which is not what I believe. But there should be definite points of brilliance.

 

[NavNucST3]

I'm thinking that the reason the WWDC got pushed back this year is to debut the whateverthehelltheirgonnacallit "Professional" Macs. With Apple being firmly affixed in the BDR camp, I am hoping to see the whateverthehelltheirgonnacallit Mac with a BD-R...unless they plan on launching it with Leopard, sometime next year, in the hopes of BD-R cost reductions.

My original hopes for the Mini were as a media center device, but seeing as how I have been waiting, for what seems like an eternity for something even remotely decent or even in the same ballpark as Media Center or hell even MythTv (FrontRow is not it), I have almost given up hope on this, BD-R or not.

No he is not. The man actually (as in litterly, you know like as in reality) said LOGO!!

I'm going to take it you don't see the irony in that post, "litter", def: 4 a : trash, wastepaper, or garbage lying scattered about.

I had always wondered how you envisioned "reality".